Thinking about it, I have to agree with that blog rant you linked to. Politicians, Republican and Democrat, have both made statements that we shouldn't rely too much on this "well, Saddam was worse" thing. No matter how true it is, it doesn't matter, because we're supposed to be the morally superior liberators here, and the actions of these people have deeply undermined that claim. Adding to the fact that things are bad enough as it is, and I'm sure you know this, but the type of naked humiliation that was used is culturally humiliating to Arabs. You can argue that their moral priorities are fucked up, like that guy you mentioned in another post who said the Americans treated him worse than Saddam, but again, it doesn't really matter to them.

Hopefully this won't be a turning point for the negative in the Iraq War, as much as the opposition wants it to be.

The guards were unprofessional, but their cause was justified.
The Democrats cut Berg's head off.

I believe they talked about the KGB story on Boortz, they said they would send back a piece every day until their hostages were released, so it was like a nose one day, then an ear, etc. And Isn't it grand that when Americans "Torture" their prisoners they subject them to Frat style initiations and we are all of a sudden horrible monsters, yet when Daniel Pearl or Nick Berg are beheaded(and in Pearl's case tortured before hand) on live video the outrage seems to be oddly missing? Partisian asswipes, oh Zell why must you retire

I'd look at it this way. If our opponent hasn't signed the Geneva Convention then we shouldn't be bound by it either. You know, it's that level playing field kind of thing.

It's the Democrats fault all the way! Who destroyed our family values? Who taught these kids that values don't matter? Who glorified this kind of action on TV and in movies? How many thousands of times have they seen or heard, "If it feels good, do it." Get on the ball, point out that these assholes are a bunch of dems, taught dem values and lack of morals BY dems and turn it back on them. just like Reagan said, define the issue, win the issue.

ian

Made famous in Tombstone...

Make not mistake, it's not revenge he is after, it's a reckoning. - Doc

We have turned into a nation of women, great big pussies. Our fore fathers would have never stood for this, a lot of people would die and we would not care. If we don't have the balls to lead the world then maybe it is time for another stronger nation to take our place. The winner writes history not the loser, wipe the Muslim's off the face of the earth and we can write history any damn way we want. Them majority of American people are dumb enough to think that there will be peace between the Muslims and the rest of the world. We are a nation on our way down, and I am beginning to believe we might even elect that faggot Kerry.

Been quiet for a while.
However I just want to point out that Grouchy assumes the people who abuse Iraqi prisoners are a minority putting all Americans to shame. We are all supposed to assume that the silent majority oof Americans do NOT support this kind of torture. So why then does it seem like nobody believes it when people say that the silent majority of Arabs do NOT support the kind of violence committed by a small group of idiots?
Sure, that small group is kind of large. And I agree that there are probably more suicide bombers than American soldiers who torture prisoners. But I still do not see how it can be wrong to assume all Americans support torture but apparently right to say that all Arabs support the bombing and killing.

If anyone feels the need to say 'We saw the Arabs dance in joy after 9/11, that proves it': You have all missed the reports on CNN afterwards that showed how those groups were usually not more than a few dozen people jumping in front of a camera. And you also have not heard how people in America sort of condone what your troops did 'because they got no support frmo higher up the ranks. Or no instructions.'
I think that is on exactly the same level: Dispicable but it would not mean the dancing Arabs would go out and kill. Nor does it mean those Americans who actually don't really mind the torture of Iraqis would go out and torture people themselves.

Bit of a long ramble. hope I am making sense......

Go ahead, Dennis. Edit my comments.

I just watched the Nick Berg murder in its entirety. I am filled with rage. Personally, I think we should level the prison with the "abused" prisoners/terrorists in it. We should then pull all of our people out of the Middle East and wipe out the entire population. Burn every mosque in America, and declare Islam a terrorist organization. Bunch of loser Arabs can die and rot in Hell. FUCK ISLAM.

Hah. Actually, if you take the perspective of Ralph Peters towards our work in Fallujah and Najaf, Nick Berg probably died because we were too cowardly to nuke Fallujah and dared actually let the Marine commanders work out a local solution.

Marieke - The difference here is that most Americans were disgusted by what we saw at the prison. Americans spoke out on blogs and letters to the editor. I even voiced my disgust. Our newspapers and other media have been bombarding us with the story. Our president apologized to the Arab world and promised that the perps would be brought to justice. Same with Rumsfeld.

Contrast this with the Nick Berg beheading. I have not heard one Arab leader comdemn the act or apologize for the atrocity. There is absolutely no moral equivalence between humiliating prisoners and sawing someone's head off. None!

We expressed our outrage about the prisoners. The silence from the Muslim world about Nick Berg is deafening.

Paul - Nothing to edit. I only edit the comments of clueless trolls.

http://nerdfish.org/iraq2vediom.wmv links directly to the file.  When you click on the link, it will ask you if you want to save or open.  Click open.

Warning: This is a very disturbing and graphic video, but I'm sure all of you here can handle the Truth.

Holy...I just spent twenty minutes gathering links to show the saturation of anti-American rancor throughout the Islamic world (to dispute this "silent majority" mish-mash)...and the post never went through after I pressed "post".

Look harder: Hamas has said they do not agree with the beheading of Berg. They called it an act of barbarism.
And the king of Jordan spoke out against it. As did the prime minister of Egypt.
but then again: it is hard to read Arab websites so even if they did speak out against it, you would be hard pressed to find links to those stories on the web. On the other hand, it is easy to find Americans lashing out against the violence because English is the language of the web.

"There is absolutely no moral equivalence between humiliating prisoners and sawing someone's head off. None!"

I agree. But those who were abused were not all the same who shoot and kill Americans. Remember: most of the attacks were suicide bombers so those people wouldn't be in the prinons anyway. And today a whole bunch of prinoers was suddenly released. I am sure that had nothing to do with the bad press lately. I am sure suddenly they were no longer a thread.....
Iraq is at war. Some people think the USA has invaded Iraq. So some Iraqis fight back: they shoot at the invaders. And the invaders shoot back. So the Iraqis get thrown in jail and abused but the invaders ..well...they are the winning ones so they have the moral highground.
If shooting American soldiers is wrong, then so is shooting Iraqi soldiers.
Iraqis shoot Americans because they believe they are invaders. Americans shoot Iraqis because they call them insubordinate.....

I stand corrected on the Arab world. Not only Hamas, but Hezbollah said it was wrong. I was shocked about that and I don't think they really mean it. But you were right there were some voices in the Arab world who condemned it.

Here in the United States, Nick Berg has been pushed off the front page of the major newspapers but the prison atrocities are still front page news. Of course, the lamestream media in this country leans to the left and the prison scandal makes Bush look bad so they are all for it.

Let me reiterate. The perps will be tried and punished. These actions are sumpin' that Americans will not tolerate. That is why most of the country is ashamed that this has happened.

On another note, I was sorry to hear about your bike being stolen. Bummer!

`Hi Americans! Let me introduce first. I’m a doc from Pakistan. The video of nick berg was horrifying. And the height of your grief and anger correlates with this. But I’m not here to console you people. I just want to enlighten those things which you people rarely think about.
Ok lets refresh our memories. Your fucking BUSH senior inserted his ass in Iraq and the so-called terrorism started. Basically it’s not terrorism, I would rather call retaliation to the US’s intrusion into the Moslem countries.
I understand that Mr. berg was innocent and shouldn’t have been killed this way. But I guess he was killed so brutally to put you in the condition in which we have been since so many years. No motherfucker could justify the savage bombing of Afghanistan killing hundred thousand people. Were there no children and women there. And how could you justify the war in Iraq. Your problem is that your media is totally controlled by ass hole Jews and they tell you all the time that you are liberators of Iraq. Where are the people welcoming liberators with flowers? Iraqis hate USA thousand times more than they hated Saddam. I mean who the fuck gave you idea to liberate Iraq. Why the hell you inserted your ass there. Excuse was faulty intelligence. STUPID. Somebody said what our forces done to the prisoners in Iraq is chicken feed as compared to Saddam regime. So let me tell you one important fact. “We can tolerate bullet from our dictators but we will retaliate any so called CHICKEN FEED from Americans”.
Everyday on the news we here “20 people killed in Iraq, 15 people killed in Afghanistan, or 20 people killed in Palestine”. Murder is murder and it doesn’t matter with knife or tomahawk. After listening to such news everyday you still want us to feel pity about any American dying in Iraq.
Now I come to the main reason of the terrorism. And that is rascal Israelis. They are firing with the gun on your shoulders. You don’t understand that they have pulled you into a war, which has turned up to be very similar to Vietnam for you. You cant leave Iraq because of Ego and believe me you cant win it either till the last Iraqi is alive. You call suicide bombers as terrorists and the brutal killers of their relatives as defenders. Could you imagine what we feel about USA when two of Hamas’s leaders were killed within a month (one of them on the wheelchair). Ratsini was with his teenager son when a rocket was fired on his car. And Ahmad Yasin’s brains were out of his skull. And nobody felt any pain about it. And the very next week president fucking Bush meets devil Sheron and supports his actions infront of the whole world. Why the whole world is shouting over beheading of nick and nobody says a word over the Genocide of Palestinians. It’ because the bastard Jews have total control over media. If you don’t believe me then read the book “international Jew” by your beloved Henry Ford.
Now I tell you a very simple solution of the so-called terrorism. Take your armies out of the whole Arab rather from all the Moslem countries and the terrorism will be over. You see it’s so fucking simple. Forget about winning the war or eradicating us by nukes. Stupid! Wars are not won by the B2 bombers or by Tomahawks. Nor you can kill 1.3 billion Moslems. If you keep on messing with us with your latest machinery, we keep on replying with suicide bombers and beheading your civilians. You kill our civilians and in return we kill yours. Yesterday it was pearl, today it was nick and tomorrow somebody else.
You people are also being mislead that you are the cream of civilization. Yes your history starts from Hiroshima and continues with the same brutalities on the whole planet. You people have killed more civilians on the planet than any other nation. And still you call yourself civilized. IDIOT.

My name is Shadow. I am a fucking idiot!

I am a dumbass! I am full of chicken shit

I am a fucking pussy and I have no brain.

I'm not saying he had it coming, but we as a country definately had it coming; it wasn't the most constructive approach on their part, but hey, we fought fire with fire when Osama slammed a plane into the World Trade Center by bombing them, why can't they follow the same logic and cut our heads off?

But oh yeah, I forgot...one American life means so much more than hundreds of Iraqi lives. What the fuck is the matter with you people and why can't you understand that what we did is a hundred times worse?

PS...what kind of pussies are you, editing peoples posts like that. What Shadow said was legitimate and it's lame to edit like that, right wingASSHOLES.

I am stupid because I am an asshole and do not know ho to debate intelligently. I am obviously a troll. Trolls deserve to be whacked.

I am a left wing robot with no brain.

I am a dipstick.

My palm is hairy. I wonder if that's because I spend too much time jacking off to pictures of Janet Reno.

Yeah, I'm definately stupid.

My name is Fuzzling. I know it's a stupid name, but I am a dumbfuck after all.

I am a cheap cock sucker! .

I realize that I should have read the rules about posting on this site. I didn't and Denny whacked me. I deserved it. Denny's site. Denny's rules. Maybe I should go troll another site.

I lack both morals and a brain.

A troll pointed out that I inadvertently deleted a comment I had made about the worth of an Arab life versus that of an American life. An American life is worth much more than an Arab life. We enjoy life. We celebrate life. The Arab culture celebrates death. Any culture that raises their children to believe that blowing themselves up is a good thing does not put much value on life. By their actions even the Arabs think that an American life is worth more than an Arab life.

And Mr. Troll read the rules of this site. Look further up the thread for Marieke's comments. She and I do not agree on much, but she is polite and debates honestly and intelligently. Any post that starts out with an insult (unless it is an original or amusing insult) is fair game for troll whacking. Those are not VALID comments. This site is not a democracy. It is a dictatorship. I pay for this site. I make the rules. If you cannot conform to the rules you will be ridiculed and whacked. I have made no secret of this. I have written multiple posts about what I do to trolls. If you cannot debate politely and honestly on the merits of your argument quit whining and go fuck off. Start your own blog. Oops! I forgot. You're a fucking troll and you're probably too fucking stupid to put up a blog and no one would want to read it anyway.

Denny rules. He's right! I am an asshole.

If anyone deserves to die, it's the Americans that value their lives so much higher than the life of anyone else in the world. I hate Americans! That's because I'm a pitiful loser!

I am an idiot!