Nailed it on the head. Nuff said.

...for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink...Matthew 25:31-46

Here in California, they give Death Row convicted murderers an automatic 20 years of appeals. I don't see what another thirty days would of hurt for this family. But your right, she is dead now.

I have an intersection near my house that has the stop sign on the wrong street. The street with a thousand cars a day has to stop for the street with a hundred cars a day. Should I have congress look into this and maybe pass a bill regarding it?
This is not an issue for the guv'mit. Period. End of statement!!

The 'guv'mit' didn't stop this. If the republicans were trying to get involved, her case would have fallen in front of a republican lawyer, not the clinton one that it found. The bill Bush signed, simply gave the parents a right to appeal it in Federal court. giving them a second chace. Nobody from the gummint got involved.

Simply to add to that, so that the liberals dont ambush my ass, I simply mean, they didn't get directly involved. As I said, if they had, they could have done a lot more, and she would be alive. Instead, they stayed out to a point, simply giving the parents a second chance.

As usual Denny your particular way with words makes it all so clear. I especially liked the comparisons you drew about partial birth abortion. etc. Why didn't anyone bring the Branch Davidian stuff up during the election when all the liberals were making their Bushitler rants because the man entrusted with enforcing the law asked for guidance from the almighty? Should he have prayed to Stalin? And I don't even believe in God. (At least the one jammed down everyone's throat from birth onward).

Good post.

Not only did you pretty much nail it, but you've apparently been reading not only MY mind but the minds of a rather sizeable majority of adult Americans. Your phrase "wishful thinking" is, of course, the whole issue.

Inasmuch as pulling the feeding tube and hydration is a death sentence, why isn't there any consideration for humane treatment? If a judge says, "Do this." which will kill her, why not lessen her suffering and just order a lethal injection?
Perhaps the judge wants to be able to wash his hands after the death of the poor woman.

I think there are due process issues as well but it seems to be too late to address that.

My personal (and torn) feeling about all this is to err on the side of trying to adminster some physical therapy for Terri to at least let her have the opportunity to improve her ability to verbalize and have her speak for herself. In addition to her scumbag husband, I find it pretty disturbing that Judge Greer seemed so hell bent on pulling out that tube. And you right, it's pretty much over now. That said, you're paragraph about Liberals and life issues was excellent.

I agree for the most part. As Young Con said, the bill only gave them a second, fresh, chance in federal court (I am also given to understand that the process in the State Courts started less than honestly and any honest look beyond that dealt with bad info. Also, the Federal Court did not do a fresh look, like they were supposed to).

But on the broader things, I agree completely with Denny, though I phrase it the other way 'round and slightly differently:

Her parents are engaged in wishful thinking, probably. But Mikey boy is a scumbag, and since he's forsworn his marriage vows, I see no reason to let him keep any marriage rights, as some Republicans and libertarians do.

Alan needs to be reminded that state court issues are routinely brought to the federal bench despite what liberals have said. Every convict on death row apeals from the state Supreme Court level to the federal for review of his or her rights. Lester Maddox had his segregated restaurant intigrated by the feds because he bought the dishes from out of state and was therefore engaged in interstate commerce.

We treat sick animals with more compassion. She's not going to magically recover, and I don't know how certain anyone can be that she isn't suffering -- she couldn't express it if she were. Dehydration is a miserable way to die.

If the intent is to kill her, why not an overdose of morphine? It's a good deal more humane than what they're doing to her now.

For the most part I agree with you.. I dont in the matter of getting the Fed Gummint involved tho.. The States Judiciary has been giving us the finger for way too long without somebody slapping them back down.. The Fed Judges didnt have a problem injecting themselves in the Texas Sodomy Law repeel, and how about the recent change to the execution of juveniles ?? These changes resulted in legislation favorable to the liberals, so they didnt get their drawers in a wad about it, but now that something comes up that they dont want and the pig is stuck under the gate again.. Why dont someone go in and put a pair of mens boxers on Terris head, then we would have torture hearings till the next blue moon, and Terri would get to have time to wait for her guardian to get killed in a car wreck or something.. Not that Im hoping for that or anything.. Yeah Right..

There is so much controversy that I am not sure just exactly WHAT I think about the issue. I don't see what would be wrong with allowing Terri to live in relative comfort while further investigation is done, and I cannot understand the husband's insistence on seeing her dead - I would have thought, 'for the money', except that someone offered him $10 million if he would drop his case and let her live, and he turned it down.

I'm sure that divorcing her would not be a problem with her family, and he has the money that was awarded for her care, so it is a mystery to me why he would still be fighting to see her dead -

To the experts who are saying how pleasant it is to die of starvation and lack of water - I think the only real experts on this subject are dead, and unless the dead are passing along this information, I can't put much faith in it. If the experts would like to put their money where their mouths are, I would look forward to hearing from them whether their deaths were painful or not.

It's untrue that she was not allowed to have therapy. Michael Shiavo spent years hoping Terri would recover. She had all manner of therapy (speech, physical, even recreational), he took her to get brain surgery, he spent years by her side, hoping. He finally came to grips with the fact that his wife was never going to recover. The nurse who recently reports his abuses has been all but dismissed. In order for her stories to be true, everyone from the hospital staff to her very own parents would have had to be involved. She has no credibility.

Shiavo sued their fertility doctor for not recognizing Terri’s compromised state of health due to her bulimia. At the time, he was hoping Terri would recover. Most of the money was put in an account for Terri’s care. Michael Shiavo has nothing to do with the handling of that money. He has also stated he would forgo any of his share of the settlement.

He eventually began dating again at the insistence of Terri’s parents. He introduced women he was dating to them and they were happy he was moving on with his life. At the same time, he still wanted what was best for her. Since there is no chance at any recovery, he wants to make sure that her wishes to be allowed to die are carried out. He is not willing to abandon her and let her wishes go unheeded. I think this is very admirable. Not a lot of people would stick around in this situation. To suggest he do so is callous.

As gruesome as it is to think about, her brain is liquefied. It's fluid. It is impossible to reverse this. She is not able to respond to her environment because she is unaware of it. Terri’s body is functioning at the barest minimum. She doesn't even have any sense of hunger, so the notion that she's starving in the way we imagine we would be does not apply.

Please spend some time reading this. It’s about 40 pages and is chock full of information about this case. It’s a report written by the Guardian Ad Litum and sets straight a lot of the slander aimed at Michael Shiavo. It may not change your mind, but at least it will give you some facts to help you understand what is going on. Don’t be fooled by the slander being used to vilify this man. It’s all part of the nasty game being played by the government.

http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/WolfsonReport.pdf

How about your feelings on Ward Churchill?

Until you read the PDF (Bonnie posted the URL above) you can have no idea of the unbelievable BS that's being pitched on this subject. Her husband spent YEARS on tests and therapy.
At this point I don't believe a damn word being said by anyone on either side.

Jimmy, did you mean my feeling on Ward Churchill? Well, I don't know too much about him, but from the limited amount I've heard and read about him, he seems like something of a wack job. He's an extremist, and he makes me nervous. Any kind of extremist does, generally.

There are those of us who do hold these beliefs, all at the same time:

1. Pro-capital punishment;
2. Anti-abortion, including partial-birth;
3. Pro- pulling the feeding/hydration tube for TS.

On anti-abortion, before you reactionaries go ape-shit, yes that means overturn Roe. Outlaw abortion, in all cases, everywhere? No, each state should decide for themselevs, and the USSC should stay out of it. Their continued bastardization of the constitution isnt helping anyone.

That said, the Congress and Bush shouldve stayed away from this TS case too, for similar reasons. I'm sure I dont know the details behind the TS case as well as some folks reading this, but I do know this matter was fully adjudicated in Florida court. Do I like the result? It doesnt matter whether I do or not. What does matter is the laws of Florida were applied. If you dont like that, change them. If you cant change them because you dont live in Florida, then shut up because you dont have any more say in that matter than I do in deciding whether Ted Kennedy gets to represent Mass. in the Senate. (I dont live in Mass.)

It all comes down to states' rights and the rule of law, at least in my opinion. Wanna change the law? Be my guest, but don't do it by allowing the Feds to stick that camel nose into the tent of state sovereignty.

Further, the Fed district court made a mistake of law. That judge, and the 11th Circuit judges, may not have liked Congress' actions any more than me, but their responsibility is to apply the law, which now includes DeLay's bill. Consistent with traditional legal principales, they should have issued a RO ordering the feeding tube replaced while the legal issues surrounding the federal law were hashed out, including the fundamental issue of whether Congress had the power to effectively make this law.

And lastly, this is what has suprised me the most about this issue - it seems the folks who are the most pissed about this tube being removed are the Christians. Fellas, I'm a Christian too; what's your beef? If I were in that bed, you better damn well pull the plug, because don't you know God will take care of Terri? What's the problem here? And dont give me that crap about starvation being cruel, because if that's how you truly felt, the answer is to hasten death, and we all know you will not embrace that. It just seems that, logically, the ones who should want the tube the most, to prolong this "life", would be those who do not believe in the after life.

Thanks for letting me vent Denny.

Reinsert Terri's feeding tube and perform a partial birth abortion on Michael Shiavo.

Since you issued an invite, here goes:

1. The personality disorders, real and imagined, of Michael Shiavo and/or his lawyer, Felos, are not at issue, and dicussion of them has allowed a simple legal question to assume a national crisis identity.

2. The actual issue is a simple case of who has more right to Conservatorship, the husband or the parents. One that issue has been decided, and it has been, changes in the ACTUAL prognosis are the only things the court may take into account. There have been no such changes.

3. The attempt to interfere on the part of the Congress and the President was a serious violation of both the Separation of Powers Doctrine, and the Establishment Clause. Yes, "Right-To-Life" is a religious organization, and trying to establish it's doctrine is wrong, wrong, wrong.

4. The apparent callousness and ease with which the Courts have ruled reflects on their attention to the simple concepts of law involved, not on THEIR personality disorders, real or imagined.

5. The GOP tripped on their Richard on this one, big time. Now the GOP spin-meisters are trying to change the issue from the law of conservatorship to assassinating the character of Michael Shiavo and his attorney. The people will see through that just as easily as they saw through Kerry last November.

6. POTUS Bush has now done the Trip, Stumble (fall is next). By failing to gain the sense of the people on both the Social Security issue and this Terry Shiavo Affair, he has demonstrated a major tendency to isolation from political reality. He needs to fire the advisors who led him to this sorry pass.

7. How long will the people give a pass to Gov. Jeb Bush for continuing to lead the FL GOP in attempts to interfere with the FL Courts? How long will it be until the (D)onk charges of a Bush Royal Family start to stick?

Whew, damn barrel is too hot, stanby whilst I change it, reload, and shovel some of this brass outa my way...

I wrote everyone I know and told them not to ever try to keep me alive like that. I also made sure my will was more "secure", but I also ripped into my husband when he said, "let her parents care for her if they want to"...because that would be an abdication of my "last" wishes and I would want my husband to fight for me even if it were against my parents. This is just way too much "fervor" over something families and doctors should decide if you ask me!

BTW: I read the New Republic...I'm one of those Scoop Jackson people:), that the left and the right are always going on and on about:).

Here's my take on this. Why is it that the left wants her to die? Is this revenge for George W. Bush being reelected to a second term? How about this....Could this be the simmering beneath the surface Eugenics movement starting to raise its ugly head again? Remember back during the turn of the last century when you had people like Margaret Sanger, H G Wells and George Bernhard Shaw advocating the elimination of certain defective and non-Arian people from the planet? Could this be a test case in order to establish some kind of precident in the event that we ever end up with a national health care plan? Will Eugenics and Euthanasia become the norm in this country? It makes me shudder to think about it.

I agree that the feds should stay out of this. This is a states rights issue. We should also overturn Roe vs Wade and make abortion a states rights issue. Executing murderers who commit their crimes when they are minors should be a states rights issue too. So should a drinking age lower than 21 without fear of losing federal highway money be a states rights issue. Allowing the use of marijuana for medical purposes, or even to legalize it at all, should be a states rights issue.

My thoughts and prayers go out to Terry Shiavo and her family. I don't think that she has a chance to survive. Her husband will now be free to marry the girlfriend that is the mother to his children. What is equally sad, is a year from now, this will all be forgotten.

If I did this to one of the Imperial Warren™, they would arrest me, and it would be justified. That's the problem I have with this.

Even in executions (in Virginia), the criminal is given sodium pentothal before, so he is unconscious and feeling no pain.

To me, this way of "allowing her to die" (i.e., executing her) is barbaric. We're treating this woman who has committed no crime worse than a serial killer.

Elizabeth
Imperial Keeper

Bonnie,

Actually, it was a question for everyone, but more importantly for Denny. I thought he may want to do a rant on him, and how un-American he is or something, considering how much we're hearin' about Ward in the news these days.

How the hell is there such a double standard for human life? Kevorkian is doing time for just assisting in suicides for terminal people in excruciating pain. Even animals and convicted murderers are put to sleep with an injection. Now we have judges allowing Mr. Scummo to have this women starved to death? I had to sign a DNR for my own mother, and it was a tough decision. I asked the whole family and it was 100% agreed. There was no argument not to. If there had been I probaly would not have done it. No matter how you feel about this issue, you have to realize that the parents see their daughter in that bed. And parents always try to do their best to care for their children. You need to put yourself in their shoes and reflect on the whole thing from that perspective. The whole damn thing sets a very dangerous legal precedent. Somebody wants that inheritance real bad? Just pull the plug on mom and dad in the coma and start spending. What's next? Fucking Soylent Green? And why would the people who physically pulled the feeding tube not be charged with murder? Terri may die in a few days, the statute for murder is infinite. I think criminal charges in this case need to be explored as well.

Florida Department of Family and Children Sevices hotline. As if they did not know already, call and make a formal complaint:

Florida Abuse Hotline: 1-800-96ABUSE

Terri's guardian is her husband, not the person/people that believe that they know what's best for her. Tough tittie, folks.

She ain't doin' anybody any good rottin' in that hospital bed, anyhow. Oh wait...except the Catholics...they benefit from her magical rotting lifeforce.

And let's not forget that Terri was bulimic. If history has shown us anything, it's that Terri's wish was not to die a vegetable, but rather to give her the feeding tube, and then stick a finger down her throat. That feeding tube is going to ruin her girlish figure.

Good post Jimmy. I hope your family members suffer the same fate. But then again you probaly don't have any.

SoftieVet,

Look Joe, if I was related to anyone that starved themselves retarded, I would kill *myself* to save the embarrassment.

Bulimia is a pathetic bourgeoisie disease. I have no sympathy for these so-called afflicted.

Holy crap! WTF is going on here? I actually agree with Jimmy about sumpin'. This shit has gone on long enough. Let her die. But at least have the decency to give her a morphine drip just in case she has enough of a brain to suffer from starvation and dehydration. I don't believe she has but I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt.

Ok, I haven't been able to get out what I think about this whole situation. So, here it goes. I hope I can make some kind of since out of this.

You hear things on both sides, HE SAID, SHE SAID. I don't know what to really believe in the case. I start leaning to one side and then the other.

I am married. I can see the husband's side. After being married for eleven years, that kind of thing comes up. Just not in conversation, but as THE TOPIC OF CONVERSATION. My wife and I have talked about it long ago, but with with this in the news, we are thinking about getting those living wills together and giving to both of our parents so they know. This prevents fighting and taking away your family's privacy.

Think about it. For the next couple of years, the news media is going to be doing news stories on them. Constantly coming at them. I don't want to bestow that upon my family. Let them grieve over my death in peace.

I have been to many funerals in my lifetime. I think everyone has. It sucks. Think about this. Do you ever see someone with a camera at a funeral. Not likely, unless you were famous and the paparazzi can get enough.

I can also see the other side of the situation. Mrs. B and I have three kids. I would like to have some kind of say. They are my kids, two boys, one girl. Boy, did I cry the night that Jessica was finally reported dead. My daughter is seven. My heart broke for that father when he had to say she was dead. Back to the subject at hand, sorry. I would like to have some kind of say as to their care if they were ever stricken with a disease or had a severe accident. May be with Mrs. B and I making our wishes known, our kids will follow suit when they get of adult age. Also, I hope they come to us with questions. This way I will have some say or influence from the beginning.

Thats about it. Got to go for now. Today my oldest is ten. Damn I am getting old.

Call Ms. Beemer's boss. I would. She should've called it in manually. Dah.

You wrote: "Terri's family is living in a dream world known as denial. They are grasping at straws to save the life of Terri."
I disagree, and her mother states very clearly, that she accepts Terri as she is, right now. She would like to see her improve, but if she doesn't, then it's still fine with her. She does not want to lose her daughter, no matter what condition she is in. I don't blame her. As has been said adnauseum, Terri's wishes were never made public (via a written document) or even spoken to anyone..accept the alleged incident with the husband. I believe in the body's ability to carry on..that 'will to live' we hear about. If it was Terri's time, a feeding tube wouldn't have stopped her from going.
I hope, somehow, somewhere, there is a person or group of them in the wings, waiting to hammer the 'husband' in court. From everything to bigomy, abuse, contempt of court etc.
The hottest seat in hell should be saved for the pedophile in Fl who killed the 9 yr old, and the next one in line for Schaivo and his attorney(s).

I am ashamed of my country today. That rapists, murderers, and pedophiles have more access to the federal court system than an innocent defenseless woman is unconscionable. How the judicial branch defied Congress last week is unAmerican. I've heard the legal jargon behind all this, and I say bullshit. How have we allowed our country to reach this stage? Because of the complex legal web we have woven for our country, an innocent woman will die and Judges will howl at the moon. Live it up mother fuckers. Your day is coming. We will defeat your judicial tyranny, and Terry Schaivo's death will be avenged.

I agree with Radtec's post and would just like to add that I sincerely hope somebody kills Judge Greer.

This case has made me so unbelievably upset. I can't believe what I am witnessing in this country. I'm ready to fight. I know I'm not alone. Whoever is going to lead this Civil War please step forward!

I don't know if anyone is even reading this thread anymore, but I've been thinking about my post above and Radtec's. When we wish death upon other people and condemn them to hell, aren't we essentially condemning ourselves? I believe that what I said about Judge Greer was wrong. I vehemently disagree with his judgements, obviously, and I should have left it at that. God bless the Schindler's. This has been a very, very sad case. I fear that the continuous moral degredation of our country may ultimately lead a fate similar to that of Rome. God help us all. Thanks for the post, Denny. You sure stirred up my emotions.

Denny, the reason your dealership didn't want to run your card manually is because it costs them more money to do so. Go go CC processing fees.

I now work for an unnamed VA based CC company.

As for TS, let her die gracefully.

As for me, I'm a liberal, but I'm pro death penalty, pro choice, pro euthanasia. If history tells us anything... human life is pretty damn cheap. People die everyday for the stupidest shit, so why should people suffering/ convicted murderers be kept alive?

Robin - WTF is going on here? You and Jimmy and I are starting to agree on things.

You quit the book store?

The thing is, I'm paying a premioum for premium service at the BMW dealership. Maybe it costs more to manually type the numbers in but does the dealership really want to piss off customers? How much does a pissed off customer cost?