"Semitic" isn't a racial distinction - it's a term used to mark a linguistic connection.

Spanish and Italian are similar languages, but there is no Italian-Spanish "race."

I beg to differ. Semitic is a racial designation just like Hamitic, which were the ancient Egyptians, unless, of course, things have changed since my high school ancient history. That wouldn't surprise me with the dumbing down of education.

Regarding your great question, Even the most moral person is still sinful in the eyes of a perfect God. Its a sad thought given the great acts we have seen done by pagans. Our only hope is that God is Merciful and Just. I remember the words of Ghandi regarding Christianity. The only fault he found with the religion were its followers.
What I was attempting to ask was how you can impose your morality on others, or advocate doing so. Even Jeffery Dahlmer had a moral compass, his was severely skewered. I think Swimmers compass is off a few clicks as well, given that he has no remorse about leaving a young girl to drown while he tried to protect his (car)rear.
I posed the question to you because I knew I would get a reasoned response. If I were to ask it on a message board, it would turn into the usual attacks and name calling.
I'm sure it does amaze people to learn that Jews and Arabs are related. Abram came from Ur in present day Iraq. His son Ishmael fathered many tribes, and his nephew Lot fathered the Moabites and Ammonites. These tribes became the arch enemies of Israel when they returned to Caanan.
According to the Bible, Abram was only a few generations removed from Noah, who is supposed to be the common link for all the people on earth.
Good night Denny, and thanks for the thoughts.

Jeremy - I am not trying to impose my morality on others. I only state opinions. Of course, I think my opinions are always right.

Yes, Most wars are due to religion,....I just gotta say,...Your rant made me sad,...for you,...to have no faith at all,...Tell me?,..What do you believe in??? PS2?

FUCK!!!!!!

I just wrote my best-ever well-balanced response to this post and fucking COMCAST lost the son of a bitch!!!!

FUCK!

Now I have to come back again TOMORROW! Just like the LAST 672 times!

Curse you! ::)))))))

I think the Muslims believe that good works get you in door anyway very good post Denny

http://iraqnow.blogspot.com/2005/04/face-that-haunts-me.html

Your words "But back to morality. Do I need an all powerful being looking over my shoulder to make me do right? Nope. I don't."

After that statement, do you think that you are made in God's image?

Joseph

Dan: Any long post, write in Notepad or something first, then paste it into the comment box when you're ready to publish. That way you don't lose it unless your comp freezes.

Damn you do a helluva good job writing what I think. I agree on this, Just Like Christianity, your retorts to Tara. When I find something we radically disagree on then we can have a knock down, drag out discourse. But for fun, let's take it out on someone we both hate.

"Do I need an all powerful being looking over my shoulder to make me do right? Nope. I don't."

Neither do I. As far as "all-powerful" goes, can an all-powerful being create another being who is more powerful than itself?

I'm saddened to see that, still, to this day, good people are being killed because they refuse to succumb to the same mental disorders as the killers. Isn't it time we all just grew up and started behaving ourselves, making the world a better place, just because it's the right thing to do?

Joseph - How can I think of myself as made in God's image when I don't believe in God?

Excellent! Quite possibly the most astute, intelligent post I've read in a looooong time. Besides that, it mirrors my thoughts, exactly...it always helps when you agree with me. hehe
Good job.

Shit! wish I had known about the hookers giving freebies to married guys when I was in WESPAC as a Marine. I would have made a very wise investment in a cheap wedding band.

Just as an aside, know who the ONLY person is that is guaranteed to be in Heaven?

............

........

.....

...

The Good Thief. ("This day, Thou shalt be with Me in Paradise").

Instead of asking how a God could be so petty to refuse a really good person, you might ask yourself how a God could be so merciful to allow such a sinner into heaven...hhmmm???

As a Catholic Christian I am taught that God sends no one to hell. This is a choice we make ourselves. So...don't go blaming a person's choice on God.

Also, this faith we have is not based just on heaven or hell. It is based on a life where God is active, where He is THERE, where He is guiding, and most of all...where he is LOVING us.

This mountain called life is a tough climb. We can try and climb ourselves and get bruised and battered, or we can hold the hand of the One who wants us to make it up the mountain more than we even do, and even though we may still get bruised we are also soothed and comforted knowing that if we fall we will be carried to the top.

* I will now pass the collection plate...;-)

Rightwingsparkle - So in your belief system does that mean that Ghandi wouldn't get to go to heaven? Howza 'bout Hindus and Buddhists? I'm not trying to badmouth your religion, but what kind of God would keep good people, who never even had the opportunity to be Christians, out of heaven? Hmmmm? That was one of the things that turned me off to Catholicism. I was raised as a Catholic, By the way.

Teresa - I believe in myself. I truly envy people who have faith that there is a superior being watching over us but I have found that I can live without it.

Denny,
Actually Catholism is the only Christian religion that teaches that other religions CAN go to heaven. THAT is one of the reasons I am a Catholic. I was raised Baptist and became a convert at 24. In my RCIA classes I was listening to a tape by Bishop Fulton Sheen where he said that the Catholic Church teaches that good and holy men and women of other religions who loved God may not know Christ by name, but when they die, they will know him by sight. In other words, Christ was the way the truth and the life (not just a name). The common thread among those who love God, by whatever name they call him, is goodness, kindness, love and forgiveness. That made so much sense to me that I decided to become Catholic right there and then.
Maybe they didn't teach you the most important things.....;-)

>>>I'm saddened to see that, still, to this day, good people are being killed ... making the world a better place, just because it's the right thing to do?

Most of my comment didn't post, and I don't have time to redo it now.

Denny, you are wrong wrong wrong about your "semite is a race" theory.

I have red hair, green eyes and ivory skin with freckles. My grandmother on my mother's side had blonde hair and blue eyes and my grandfather on my dad's side had carrot red hair and coloring like me.

If you and I stood together in a room and invited onlookers to play a game of "guess the semite" I bet they would pick you! :)

If you are at all interested, I'd be glad to hunt down some web pages to support my case.

Sharon

I believe that the Semites were decendants of Shem, one of Noahs sons. So, I guess that would make them a tribe of a larger people/race.

A question that comes to my mind is this: If there is a God of the sort in the bible, Quran, etc. , why do we need to be told about it? Wouldn't God make his existence known to man instinctively? No one has to tell us to eat or drink, why do we need to be educated about the existence of God? If man is involved the chance for corruption is high. Why would God leave it to man?

Sharon - Sigh! I hate to have to point out what you as a Jew should know. This is just another example of poor education. Please don't try to argue ancient history with me. I obviously know more than you do. I'm not saying you are stupid, just that you lack knowledge of ancient Middle Eastern history. My Semite is a race theory is not a theory, it is a fact. Grab a dictionary (or a decent ancient history of the Middle East).

From here

Semite - A member of a group of Semitic-speaking peoples of the Near East and northern Africa, including the Arabs, Arameans, Babylonians, Carthaginians, Ethiopians, Hebrews, and Phoenicians.

That is the first definition. The second definition is - A Jew.

You are obviously an Ashkenazi Jew and your forbears intermingled with Europeans. Remember, your Jewishness passes through your mother (Which always cracks me up that the Christians trace Joseph's lineage back to David, even though they believe Mary's conception was immaculate and Joseph wasn't the real father. Proof that the Gospels were written by Gentiles.). As long as your matrilineal line is Jewish, you are Jewish. Your father, or a male way back could have been Gentile, hence your red hair and green eyes. One of my best friends in college was a blond haired, blue eyed Jew. Also, people who are not Semites could have converted to Judaism, like the Ethiopean Jews who happen to be black.

See what you get for coming here? You get some knowledge that you didn't have before, from a goyem, no less.

Sharon, the languages of the Semite people are very similar. Arabic, Aramaic, Hebrew, very few diffrences. I am also partly Jewish, (yes Denny, on my mothers side, and my paternal Grandmothers side as well). My father was fluent in several languages, ten or more, including Hebrew and Aramaic. He used to delight in teasing the Jehovahs Witlesses by bringing out Biblical test in Greek, Latin, or what ever language they claimed was correct when ever they made their " thats not what it says in the Greek, etc" arguement. Semite is derived from Shem, one of the sons of Noah. For my part, I claim to be a descendent of a Turkish vine dresser. That explains why I like wine so much.

Ayn Rand spent a large number of hundreds of pages articulating an internally consistent, secular morality. Starting from the fact that our minds are our means of survival, that we must choose to use them, that each man is sovereign, she derived a complete morality that demands voluntary interactions as the norm of human affairs. It absolutely prohibits the exploitation of others, or the sacrifice of one’s self to the needs of others, as our leaders are demanding that we as a people do for the Kleptocracies of Africa.

God is neither necessary as an explanation of the world and its workings nor as a giver of morality, since morality derives from our nature as rational beings. The very concept of moral commandments is a contradiction in terms. Morality cannot be commanded as it derives from man’s nature.

Denny,

Since you insist on exercising the masculine prerogative - refusing to admit you are wrong, I will be forced to exercise the feminine prerogative - setting a man straight. :)

This article, by the eminent scholar Bernard Lewis debunks the false belief that “semitic” is a racial distinction.

“Serious scholars have pointed out . . . that "Semitic" is a linguistic and cultural classification . . . It has nothing whatever to do with race ...”

http://www.myjewishlearning.com/history_community/Modern/ModernIntergroup/ModernAntisemitism/Semites.htm

I think you are confusing "race" with "ethnicity."

BTW, Even though we disagree here, I really like your web page and read it often.

Sharon - You have your opinion and sources and I have my opinion and sources and never the twain shall meet. Of course, since this is my site, I'm right. Arabs and Sephardic Jews are of the same race.

You say ---

"Y'see, I don't believe in God, but ..."

I hate to pull a Slick Willy on you, but that all depends on what your definition of "God" is. You can't believe in the supremacy of the Law if you don't believe in the supremacy of the law-giver. You do believe in the law-giver (by my definition -- "God"). It's just that, as a rationalist, you've mistaken yourself for Him.

Bob

Bob - I believe that God was created by man to instill morality in mankind. Therefore man was the lawgiver. I do not have to believe in a supreme being for my morality. I do not believe "Thou shalt not kill" because it is one of the Ten Commandments. I believe it because I think it's wrong to take a life. I also don't believe I am God because I believe it. Your logic is way off.

As I understand your main objection to us religious folk, it's that we try to impose our morality on society.

But I must point out that it's not in my job description (as a Christian) to make you obey my rules (or even what I call "God's" rules). My calling is merely to warn you that you will give an account of your behavior to someone greater than yourself -- not to someone I created, but to the One who created you.

In contrast to my calling, your calling (as a rationalist) is to take an active roll in assuring that society adopts your definition of morality (as opposed to the views of Osama bin Laden). Who then is the fanatic, trying to impose his morality on others?

Since I mentioned our accountability to God, I must hasten to add that the verdict against all of us is the same: "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God; there is none righteous -- no, not even one." (Romans 3) This is true of all Christians, Jews, Muslims, Theists, Hindus, Rationalists, ... alike. We are all deserving of God's righteous wrath.

We may succeed in convincing ourselves that living up to our own definition of morality exempts us from our just deserts -- but I suspect that if you were all that convinced of your own righteousness, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Where Christianity parts with all other faiths is on the issue of "grace". Only Christianity teaches that we don't have to receive the justice we deserve. Christianity teaches that Jesus received that punishment for us and He now invites us to accept His forgivness for the torment we inflicted on Him.

Is that fair? HELL NO, it isn't fair! It's as unfair as it would be for your son to die defending the freedoms of a bunch of morally superior war protestors. If those hippies got what they really deserved, they'd be rotting in Abu Graib under the watchful eye of Saddam's guards.

So how do you figure God feels about our scorning the sacrifice of His Son? Is He "being petty" (as you put it) to let us self-described "really good" persons face the justice we deserve?

You see, "believing in Jesus" isn't a matter of gullibly accepting something that's patent foolishness; it's trusting in someone who has proved Himself trustworthy. It's your choice; you can trust in your own righteousness, or you can trust in Jesus'.

Bob

Bob - Once again you misunderstood me. I have no objection to you religious folk as long as you don't try to force your beliefs down my throat or kill me in God's name. I envy you your faith. But after saying that, I believe the Bible was written by man. You believe it is written by man at the direction of God. You believe that Christ died for our sins and the poor heathens who have not found Christ will not go to heaven. I fail to see how a compassionate God could condemn a whole group of people who have never even had the chance to find Christ. Once again, that is my belief. I do not force that belief upon others. I have no problem with you believing that as long as it does not affect me.

And I can live with you being an "infidel". It saddens me, but you're accountable to God, not me.

Please note, this is also where Christianity and Islam part company:
The rejection of God's love moves followers of Christ to tears.
The rejection of Allah's law moves followers of Mohammed to kill.

Bob