HAHAHAHA! That's just great! Nice work, Josh.

Needs a little flare and graphics to emphasize the point, but dead on the mark.

10 minutes?????

Here they mail out a form for burglary.

We don't have any neighboorhood like in America. If a thief wanna stole something, it may be easy in a neighboorhood but not in our cities.

Thieves wait for us to be in holidays, even if we had guns, we couldn't do anything.
They never attack a house with someone inside.

They don't try to break into a house where there is light or a car parked in front of the house.
And our houses and appartements are well protected by automatic alarms, several lockers. They can't access to a house through windows because most of the time, windows which can be reached are protected with steel bars.

To break in, they make noise and it takes time.

A loud alarm is very efficient. Do you know a thief who wouldn't run once everybody heard the alarm ringing and he knows the police is comming?

The sign is in need of some pictures, since many of the crooks and bangers can't read.
I suggest a picture of your TV, wife and daughter and the family jewels, no not those jewels.

Pierce: "They never attack a house with someone inside."

Well, granted, what I'm hearing about is England, but since it seems you're modelling the same system - the current spree is to knock on someone's door (and since they're home, the alarm is likely disarmed), and when they open it tear gas/hit them with something hard, go in the open door, pillage, and leave.

"Do you know a thief who wouldn't run once everybody heard the alarm ringing and he knows the police is comming?"

And, what if they don't? What if they cut your power before breaking in? What if they disable the alarm system (it's quite easy to do, most systems have easily-accessed overrides. You might not know about it, but are you going to bet your life the criminal's not spent some time researching it?

What if the police aren't coming, when the criminal - who's *already breaking 2 or 3 laws*, is coming in your door?

What happens when your vaunted defenses *fail*?

Ever heard of this little thing called the "Maginot Line?" Ever? Ring any bells?

A friend of mine got into a gun control argument with a neighbor who was all for gun confiscation and was giving him a raft of shit for owning guns. He put a 4X8 plywood sign in his front yard the next day that read something like "Owner of this house will shoot intruders. However the home across the street at ***** believes in gun control and doesn't own a gun". He left the sign up for a week with his neighbor in apoplexy.

Well, granted, what I'm hearing about is England, but since it seems you're modelling the same system - the current spree is to knock on someone's door (and since they're home, the alarm is likely disarmed), and when they open it tear gas/hit them with something hard, go in the open door, pillage, and leave.

and what's your response in this case ? It's too late for your gun, no? Remember, the robber can always surprise you, and whatever weapon you might have, he can carry the same. And because you're an honest personn who never shoot on anybody, and he is a bad guy who always did it many times, he's better than you. Escalation of violence and barbarity to me...

Prosper:
You're looking for a bug in the system, but it's not there.

C-TAC. Trust me, it's amazing. On the List is also: "The Answer" - kydex by the same company as the first.

Yes, the robber can surprise me. But it's unlikely, if he's knocking on my door.

"Escalation of violence and barbarity to me..."

That's the Dane-geld that Elizabeth, I believe, has quoted you so eloquently. Is it escalation? I suppose. But it's not an escalation of barbarity.

That's the problem.

Force != barbarism.

TRIBES Read that.

"Then there are the wolves," the old war veteran said, "and the wolves feed on the sheep without mercy." Do you believe there are wolves out there who will feed on the flock without mercy? You better believe it. There are evil men in this world and they are capable of evil deeds. The moment you forget that or pretend it is not so, you become a sheep. There is no safety in denial.

"Then there are sheepdogs," he went on, "and I'm a sheepdog. I live to protect the flock and confront the wolf." ...

If you have no capacity for violence then you are a healthy productive citizen: a sheep. If you have a capacity for violence and no empathy for your fellow citizens, then you have defined an aggressive sociopath--a wolf. But what if you have a capacity for violence, and a deep love for your fellow citizens? Then you are a sheepdog, a warrior, someone who is walking the hero's path. Someone who can walk into the heart of darkness, into the universal human phobia, and walk out unscathed.

Violence - Predatory versus Protective

This recognition of the difference between violent and predatory and violent but protective illustrates the difference in worldview between people like me, and the (we'll call it) pacifist culture.

Britain today represents a perfect example of the pacifist culture in control, because that culture doesn't really distinguish between violent and predatory and violent but protective - it sees only violent.

In other words: young toughs need to be afraid of old men.

Note that critical point: "...it's lawyers who have invented the idea that when the state uses coercion, even brutally, it is exercising "force" and that only individuals or nongovernmental groups use violence." And that is, in my opinion, an insidious form of self-deception, because it draws a moral difference between a citizen who defends himself, and one who does not but instead summons a police officer.

Hate to quote myself, but on reflection:

"Yes, the robber can surprise me. But it's unlikely, if he's knocking on my door."

But the point is, if he's there to do violence *IN THE FIRST PLACE*, your system leaves me to fight him barehanded, since I'm obeying the laws. (And he's not, so he gets to have what he wants).

Sure, he *might* get the drop on me, it's possible. But in your system, it's assured.

Some % of risk, versus 100%. Hmmmmm.

In my system Addison, it's very difficult for the robber to have a gun, because they are prohibited. I never faced anyone with a gun in my all life (it's true that i'm just 34 ;-)), and the last time i saw a real gun, it was during my military service, after a white-flag-waving-class...

Prosper:
You're dodging most of the questions.

But I do appreciate the sense of humor.

So he doesn't have a gun. So he's got a knife. Or a large stick. Or a big steel pipe.

The point is, being criminally violent, he's got the advantage. He doesn't HAVE to stop when I retreat, he doesn't HAVE to give me quarter when I ask for it.

I've never faced a criminal with a gun, either. But there's a possibility of it. So I'm prepared, and try and be ready for a possibility. Because it's a hell of a lot easier for me to decide *not* to shoot someone if they don't deserve it - than to shoot them when they *do* and I'm unarmed.

I'm a large guy. Was recruited to play college football, I presume you know what US Football is, and what the Offensive/Defensive line looks like. I was a tackle/defensive end.

*I* stand a chance in hand to hand. Does Denny? Does Elizabeth? Denita? If I were to knock down their door, could they stop me (barring guns)?

So, in your case, as the robber bashes your brains in with steel rebar, or a plumbing pipe he stole from the construction site down the road... you'll be happy that it wasn't escalated into more violence?

Maginot Line. Care to tell us the lessons learned from that insurmountable obstacle?

"I never faced anyone with a gun in my all life (it's true that i'm just 34 ;-))"

I've never had to put out a grease fire in my kitchen but I still have FOUR fire extinguishers in my house Just-In-Case...

I think one of the orignal arguments was that Europe is safer because they have no guns. Well I did some checking and came to the conclusion that if you compare the US to say Belgium or Germany yes we have are more violent.

But to be fair Belgium is about the size of Maryland, and Germany is a little larger than Montana. So I added the crime rates of all of Europe, and guess what teh US is actually safer than teh whole of Europe.

Maybe if Pierre and Prosper shouldtake a step back and look at the wider picture.

Info found at http://www.unece.org/stats/trends/ch13/13.1.xls

Thanks, Addison (the other one). I don't stand a tissue paper dog's chance in hell in defending myself. I'm a 5'6" female with a bad back. In fact, in 1978 I was attacked in my own home minding my own business by a former boyfriend.

I didn't have a gun then. I have two now, a 20 gauge shotgun and a .38 revolver, am now pondering a third purchase, probably a 9mm.

I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that if someone would enter my house, I would kill them. Period. End of statement. I won't be a victim again.

Elizabeth
Imperial Keeper

Sorry, I'll try and proof read my entries before I post them in the future.

Facts are still solid, just my spelling is horrible.

Criminals don't have guns in France? Crimninals have guns everywhere. They are just not as readily available in France. Just because guns are against the law doesn't mean that crooks don't have guns.

The most likely time for a crook to break into my house is after I have gone to bed. I have a gun readily available in my bedroom.

As to the other comments on this thread - Do I have the best commenters or what?

One other thing - Maybe if Theo Van Gogh had had a gun he would still be alive today. Prosper and Pierce you have a growing Muslim population that is beginning to turn violent. If I were you I would be very afraid.

Right about Theo Van Gogh and the Muslim pop in Europe. That is going to be an immigration issue the people of Europe will regret.

Good example is Chirac...he appeases the Arab/Muslim voters in the decisions he makes. The professional community in France is dominated by well-educated Arabs, especially in the medical field.

T-Shirt for those who's principles (or principals, depending on age) demand that they are disarmed.

Pierce: "They never attack a house with someone inside."

Are you nuts!!!???!!!! Wasn't the late George Harrison of the Beatles palace broken into and wasn't George attacked with a knife. Granted, it was not a gun but the point is that if they can get to George with all his money and ability to hire protection, what does that say for the rest of the poorer slobs in Europe.

Another glaring example would be a break in at the Buckingham Palace as well. Yeah Right, they wait till you're on vacation.

I’ll bet there are neighborhoods in Paris where I would be taking my life in my hands if I were to venture into them. You already have a huge problem in Paris with immigration from Africa and the Middle East. Young disenfranchised (PUNKS) will soon be taking on your law enforcement directly and then you will be singing different tune.

Disarm Disarm, we can all live in peace. My Ass!!!

Pierce, you know what stops a criminal dead in their tracks. CLICK! CLICK! The sound of a shell being loaded in a 12-gauge shotgun. Better than any alarm system in the world. Keep you damn doors locked too.

Cheers

Scaryguy - That is almost exactly what Jim over at Smoke on the Water told me when I was at Kim du Toit's last year. He said when the goblin heard the click click of a shell being loaded into a 12 gauge he would either shit in his pants inside the house or while running out the door.

Denny:

That's an oft-repeated statement. But do me a favor, and take my Maginot line comments to heart, and make sure you've got at least ought-buck in it, in case it *doesn't* scare 'em. Have a backup plan. That involves lots of lead moving towards them, fast. :)

Hey, they might be deaf. :)

Reason I'm pretty vocal about it... I know of 2 people who have pump shotguns for their wife... and that's the plan, have them rack the shotgun. Wives have never shot them, and are scared of them - so personally, I don't think it will help. That's the sort of gun handling that worries me.

I've at least trained my gf to shoot the 12 gauge. Well, how it works, one shot with #6, and she won't touch it anymore at the range. (So I moved to plan B - M1 Carbine for her)

Addison (the other one) - If I rack a shell into the breech, I'm fully prepared to shoot. I also have an S&W 640.

Hey, I've not been faced with a gun either, and I'm (I think) 37. But I have been robbed, attacked, threatened and burgularized. A friend of mine was robbed, attacked and held hostage in our home while he ransacked the house and verbally and physically abused my friend (we both moved out). He had a kitchen knife. This all happened in England.

Europeans don't understand the nature of defending oneself. They feel it is the governments job. The comments from our french neigbours demonstrates that. I have a gun (or two, or three). I don't want to kill anyone: that is a repulsive thought. But I am prepared and will defend myself, with deadly force. There is a gulf of distinction between the two. Luckily I live in a country where it's more and more unlikely that such a situation is going to happen. But I still wear my seatbelt, I wear my helmet while cycling and PFD while boating.

I've said it before, overall, the US is one of the least violent worldwide communities to live in. Maybe the Eurpeans are numb to the violence around them, but like to look to the US for blame - because they have the guns? Being stabbed and assaulted is acceptable as long as no one dies from a gunshot wound?! Now isn't that just dandy [end sarcasm]