It may not be Politically Correct, but the truth is the truth. All this ends up doing is creating a permanent underclass of Poor Morons and widening the gulf between them and the rest of us, making it ever more difficult to catch up.

Among certain segments of the population, mainstream American society's cultural norms are unknown, devalued, derided, or ignored. The alternative, alas, is poverty, crime, and chaos.

The question, "Who's yer Daddy?" Isn't rhetorical, obviously.

Why is it not simple to these governmental, welfare providing, social experts......

A 13 or 14 year old male with no man in the house is gonna be uncontrollable by his momma at some point soon.
When he gets to the point that he "disses" his momma, it's an easy step to become a scofflaw too.

I don't think these "social engineers" want to see how simple the answer to this problem really is!
MAKE IT PAINFUL FOR MEN TO IGNORE THEIR BABIES!

(Did I say Simple answer?)

Elisson has a point: It may not be Politically Correct, but the truth is the truth.

Question is...what to do?

The answer to that question is, most obviously, not an easy one. We need to break the cylcle. Young, sincgle mothers, having children, going on welfare, raise young single mothers...etc.

It is going to get worse, just like boomboxes get louder. Breeding illegitimate babies in the Black community is a status symbol by both males and females, sorta like low slung pants and arrest records. More Orwell morality thanks to 50 years of Liberal social policies.

What is scary is if this bastard breeding becomes popular in the Hispanic community. The can make cats look like slow breeders.

And this is not to deny that there is some of this going on in the White community also, just at a very lower rate.

This is not just a racial thing, altho' blacks do have the higher rate of unwed mothers, poor whites are doing this also. I've stated many times on how to break the cycle. As soon as a woman goes on welfare she gets sterilized. Yeah. Like that's gonna happen, but it would solve the problem. I would like to sterilize the sperm donors also.

Ok, you don't think that's a bit radical? What happens when/if she gets off welfare. Wouldn't sterilizing her be viewed as some kind of punishment? Would you punish the woman who was, say a mom of three, and then her husband left her and she had to go on welfare? Would you punish the woman who thought her man would stand by her when she was pregnant, and ultimately became a mom? Only to find out it wasn't so? I'm not so sure on that. I'm not saying it wouldn't work...as obviously it would..but, isn't that a bit harsh? Would we take circumstances into consideration?

How about mandatory birth control to collect welfare or get any government assistance if you're married or unmarried. But NO pills, patches, etc., since those leave it up to the female breeding machines to be responsible to take them, so those obviously won't work since it was irresponsibility that got them where they are in the first place. The only thing I can see is a Depo-Provera shot, which lasts about 3 months, given by the local health dept 4 times a year, otherwise their benefits are stopped until they get the shot.

I think radical situations call for radical solutions, and someone doesn't have to be on welfare for at least temporary sterilization to be a good idea. There are plenty who do not come from poor families who get pregnant. I went the 'abstinence teaching' route with my daughter who made the decision to get herself pregnant at 19. I've been raising her child for the last 16 years, as almost half of grandparents do in this country. When it became apparent the burden would fall on my shoulders, I made an appointment to have her tubes tied. For those who told me I had no right to require that of her...I do if she has her hand in my wallet and takes 21 years of my life to handle her responsibilities. She managed to finish her education and agrees it was the best thing to do long-term. My position was, if a person can't afford to have a tubal ligation reversed, they can't afford more children. Mean, aren't I?

Right..the shot is a good idea, in theory..but, what about more education? What about offering free health care/planned parenthood to those folks? Ok, probably stupid yes? But what have we done to educate ANYONE about this. People...look at the system..which preaches abstinence....or the old "aspirin between the knees technique."

Oooops...major 'foo paw' there. Can't reverse a tubal ligation. I meant to say reverse having tubes tied.

Moogie: I don't think we have to look far to find the schools offering sex education and even rides for free healthcare and abortions (without notifying parents). It's common practice to hand out condoms at schools. The more we've educated young people about sex, the worse the problem has become. It's a problem of moral decline and the breakdown in families that isn't going to get any better by handing out condom's and such IMO.

My two cents worth from a libertarian viewpoint: cut the money off. Let it be known that there will be no more aid for dependent children for mothers who never married. If they can't support the kids then take the kids-non support falls under child abuse. Probably cost more for the government to raise the kids then it would paying the mom but maybe by raising the kids in a group home where they are educated and taught some values the cycle can eventually be slowed if not nearly stopped. Four gererations of welfare mothers living in the same subsidized apartment conplex is not only expensive but non-productive for society...

Sounds good GUYK, but it'll never happen. Honestly, the only idea that makes sense and would be doable is mine.
That being said, the only problem with my idea is that it's reccomended that Depo-Provera shots not be taken for more than 2 years, because of possible bone-density problems, at least that's what they told my g/f...I do like Denny's idea best, but unfortunately, that'll never happen either. Honestly, none of this will happen. That's the problem.

Soooo...who is getting all the abortions that the libs say is a woman's right?

Girls use sex and these babies to hook a loser man. They think it is cute to be called "my baby's mama." There isn't any thought behind these pregnancies...that is the sad part, especially for the kids. Most of these girls can't spell "commitment" let alone tell you what it means.

Didn't we just learn a lesson watching the 'victims' of Katrina...the poor don't have a clue.

Did I have a brain fart or did this thread start to turn racist?

I agree with Denny, all single Mothers on welfare should be sterlized. Line them up, and zap them, and bill them too, no need to add to the taxes. Take the kid(s)to the 700 club, they would get a good penny.

Oh for god sake, sterilization? forced injections? Oh yeah and when did this stop being america? Personally I think it sucks that the poor and the dumb keep having children they can't afford or raise properly, but of course we wouldn't have had Abraham Lincoln if we had only allowed the rich and the smart to breed.

The answers will never be easy. But we can slow it down, First we need to make it very very painful for the GUYS to impregnate a female! We need to hold HIM accountable for a change! We expect the women to reverse to some sort of retro stereotype of the 1950's woman but whatever happened to the 1950's men? The ones who wanted to marry the mother of their children? the ones who wouldn't dream of not being financially responsible for their children?
We need to refuse to pay one dime more for a woman on welfare who has more children while on it. we need to number the years a woman can be on it and we need to give "real" and excellerated educations or skills to these women.

Marriage in this country right now isn't coming off as too great an experience. Name one television show that portrays a happy married couple who enjoy and respect each other!

Phobos- Yeah, you had a brain-fart moron, although with a brain the size of yours, I'd say you had more like a slight hiccup. You are so typical of the looney left. If the truth whacks you upside the head, you have to scream racism at the truth. If you read EVERYTHING posted, including Denny's post and the article in the AJC, you'd realize that this has nothing to do with race, DUMBASS!

annelizy,
That's just brilliant. Now, explain to all of us exactly how we make it painful for an unemployed sperm-donor to impregnate a breeding machine? How do you hold a worthless piece of trash accountable for this? You're no different than Phobos- stupid is as stupid does.
If I got some woman pregnant, I could and would deserve to be sued to support the child. But I would, because it's my child.
There's the difference- A. I have morals, and B. I have money, a job, etc.

"If I got some woman pregnant"

that will mean you run faster than her Rob !

I am impressed by the sarcasm in your statement "Doesn't that say a lot about our nation's capital?" But you fail to follow up and ask "Doesn't that say a lot about the 'Red' states in this country?" As you know the state with the worst numbers is Mississippi, while the state with the best is Howard Dean's Vermont. I will never understand your comments about values and marriage, with your votes for Gingrich.

If the men are like Howard Dean in Vermont, it is no wonder the birth rate is down...

I live in a predomanently white rural area. The median income level of most of us is a little above poverty level.The only unwed "parents" AND YES,I DO MEAN BOTH GIRLS AND BOYS!I see come from a good home background.(or at least it looks that way from the outside)Their familys are composed of a mother and father that has been married before maybe 1 to 4 times. It's no big suprise that the kids a royally screwed up!I hear a lot of the girls express the wish for a child in the terms of "having someone that will love me" I don't think they know that having a Baby , means giving unconditional love freely to a baby 24/7 for the rest of your life. I have seen boys that jump from g/f to g/f and impregnate them and just walk away and laugh. These stupid fools have to be taken and held accountable! Great balls of fire, it took both of them to make the kid,not just her! There is no reason to quit school either. It is a lot differant than in the 60's where everyone looked down on unwed motherhood, and it brought great shame to the woman. The really sad part is that it also put a stigma on the innocent child! And like most of history the Man skipped merrily away. I do not believe in abortion,,,call it what you want,,,I call it outright murder! However I do believe in adoption. I don't believe in forcing a young person to have their tubes tied, it can't be guarranted to be reversed. I do believe in some type of compusary birth control for these hurting people, so they can stop having more children, and get an education and a life. I remember being a teenager about a thousand years ago. Then I could only see things that affected my life from minute to minute. I didn't think of the future, it seemed to far away.Maybe we should think with both our hearts and heads.maybe we should walk a mile in our brother or sister's shoes?

Some 20 years ago while on a business trip to Atlanta, my host`s treated me to dinner with an evening of drinks & to watch some of the local feminine talent dancing the night away at a local dance/watering spot in downtown Atlanta.Some of these girls were quite strikingly beautiful but as conversationalists somewhat deficient to say the least. My host excused this as because it was well known women of the south were dumber than dirt. As to whether this explains the low expectation for marriage & motherhood .......it could be, but since the incidence for unwed motherhood is rising in the north & we have not noticed a southern drawl from these girls, apparently this is not the case.... but they do carry on a more intelligent conversation.

Phobos - What planet are you on? Exactly where in the comments were any racist statements made? Only a liberal leftist moonbatic jackwit like yourself would find something racist in the comments made so far. The only mention of race included everybody but the Asian community. Obviously they have a handle on their situation regarding unwed mothers and keep it to a minimum. We all might be able to take some lessons from them. Then again, maybe the racist is you, since you infer that because we're talking about welfare we mean only minorities. Demographically, Blacks make up, what, 10% of the US population? I'm sure there's a good share of our illegal "guests" in this country soaking up the gummint dime as well, but the majority of welfare recipients are white. Yup, broke-ass white people. "Livin' in a trailer home, eatin' mayonaise sandwiches, fuckin' their sister and listenin' to John Cougar-Mellencamp records."--Chris Rock

Annelizly - Back in the days of Lincoln, we didn't have the Great Fuckin' Society. If you had kids and couldn't afford them, they died of hunger. Period. It has nothing to do with being rich or smart. It's called using that huge hunk of bone atop your neck for sumpin' more than a friggin hatrack. I must say, though that I do agree wholeheartedly with the rest of your comments. Especially about the TV programs, since so many people sit glued to the boob tube and end up emulating what they see on it.

The main problem with Rob's solution of suing the sperm donor for his wages is he doesn't have to hold a job. If he doesn't hold a job, there's no wages to garnish. I've seen several pieces of shit like this. One is my cousin. They usually sponge off another woman or family for as long as it's allowed. Or if they do hold a job, they get paid under someone else's name. Yeah, seen that too. I never said I hung around the best of people. But at least I have my shit straight and can provide an good example of what my kid should try to do when he reaches the age of manhood. I waited until the tender age of 30 to have a child. I hold 2 jobs and am fixin to get a 3rd so my wife can continue to stay at home with the baby. I do whatever it takes to support my family, plus I support my wife's family in Colombia. Some of these motherfuckers won't even get off their lazy asses to find ONE job, it's much too easy to sit with your hand out.

Just remember, if you don't wanna abstain..."Wrap your wacker before you attack 'er!" Better yet, "Porn, it's cheaper than dating." Just another tip from your Uncle Mike.

What ever happened to the number one cause of poverty being not working hard?

GUYK said "My two cents worth from a libertarian viewpoint: cut the money off. Let it be known that there will be no more aid for dependent children for mothers who never married. If they can't support the kids then take the kids-non support falls under child abuse. Probably cost more for the government to raise the kids then it would paying the mom but maybe by raising the kids in a group home where they are educated and taught some values the cycle can eventually be slowed if not nearly stopped. Four generations of welfare mothers living in the same subsidized apartment complex is not only expensive but non-productive for society..."

I agree with this idea, but one way would be to take the kids away from the mother that is not suited to raise their kids properly. There are an average of one in four couple that can not have children naturally who would love to adopt a child or children. But the stupid adoption laws in this country that protect the drug addicted shit bags make it nearly impossible for decent folks to adopt.

Or how about this nightmare: you adopt a child and the natural mother gets her shit together for a month and comes looking to get her kid back. Some dick head judge awards the birth mother the child you raised for the last 5 years. I couldn't deal with that and that is how a lot of others feel too. So much so that they leave the country to adopt babies there. That another whole thread whatever!

So what is the solution? No more free money, food stamps, housing and Bio Dad (the sperm donor) gets to pick up trash on the freeway for the next 9 months Everyday rain/snow or shine. Why 9 months. Because that is how long a pregnancy lasts. Next time, ya horny little peckerwood, use Birth Control.

Just today, a single SF mother was hearing voices that told her to dump her kids....In the San Francisco bay. Mother of the year, no doubt. She was seeing a social worker that probably realized that she had a serious mental disorder. Did the social workers do anything about it? Nope. Now her three kids are dead. Way to go, San Francisco.

Cheers

I totally agree with cutting them off. If we ended this child support/visitations rights stupidity then these women would think twice before opening their legs. Like grouchy pointed out this is not freedom for these gals at all, it ends up beng slavery. The feminists brought this on us when they decided that the way to end marriage was to make women financially independent from men. But these gals are not financially independent in any way. And the "deadbeat dad" stupidity needs to end. As a stepfather who has a son with a "deadbeat dad" I can tell you that it is easy to inflict an impossible onerous burden on this guy. He ends up being hit with a financial responsibility that will likely cause him to fail to make payments and have to jump from job to job to avoid the law. Another cause of poverty.

Maybe I should just say it...feminism causes poverty. If you want to get serious about poverty you have to get serious about feminism. As long as there are feminists there will be poor people.

If you're going to start taking kids away, or what have you then you need to establish different rules on welfare. It's a revolving door. If a parent makes too much money (which is not enough for them to live on alone), then they get no aid from welfare. So where then, is the reason to get a job?

saryguy...I'm not exactly sure what your posting the story about the SF mother has to do with this, or exactly how SF is at fault because there was a psychotic woman living in their city.

Phobos-
I saw lots and lots of real racism recently. It was on CSPAN and was at the Million More March. There was blatant, overt, inciting racism orated by Black Congressional Caucus members, Black activists, Black journalists, Black educators, Black entertainers, Black students, Black clergymen. Or is racism only definable as coming from other than Black people??

scaryguy-

You are so right about adoption laws. I know people who have waited years and still have not been able to adopt. Good, good people. And a neighbor went thru the nightmare you mentioned of a birth mother showing up and wanting her child back. It was a costly process but the adoptive parents won. What the courts, lawyers and birth mother overlooked was the trauma on the child, 6 years old.

I suspect that this thread will grow and grow. A lot of good ideas from the contributors but we don’t run the show.
No that job belongs to the meatheads running these big social programs who choose for self serving reasons, to ignore any good advice. They'll call it racist even though it’s directed at all unwed mothers and their sperm donors.
As it has in the past and will likely in the future, fall on the GOV to pay and that really means you and me. No more tax breaks for the rich and responsible. Oh …Big G has to step in and save the day, raise that poor kid. It's not their fault; it's not the illiterate mothers who can’t keep her legs crossed. It’s not the horny teenage (high school) dropout fathers fault either. It's the rich because they are not willing to pay for someone else's messed up kid.

They’ll give you the same old song and dance that we are paying for a future for our youth. They’ll pull on the patriotic heart strings and play us as against the rest of the better educated world. So on and so forth, not big mystery how this will happen and when people start to treat this as a new epidemic (meaning no one is to blame) Oh my God, the public outcry. Cooler heads will see the real cause of the problem but they will be shouted down or vilified if they dare speak up.

So here comes Big G to create a new “war on poverty” and do nothing to address the real question and answer of social and moral responsibility. Because to even dare ask the question is racist or some other shit.

Responsibility is not taught anymore. Where would learn it from, public school, you can’t even pray there or display a religious symbol. So, where are they going to learn the skills of social and moral responsibility? Their parents, sure if they would put down the bottle or crack pipe long enough to realize what is going on.

Like I said, if you can't raise the kids, the state should take them away and give them to someone who can. These kids that are having kids so someone will love them are a product of parents who hardly acknowledge their existence. They need love (Parental Love) and guidance. It doesn’t take a village, just two loving and responsible parents to do it right. No crack headed mother or father can give them that.

You want to stop the problem. Start lining up perspective adopting parents and take the kids away from the shit head parents and make it law that this adoption transaction is FINAL. (Period) Get It. If they (the state) can take away your drivers' license for driving drunk and being irresponsible, they should be able to take away your kids for being irresponsible.

Moogie - I just said my idea would work. I know it won't be adopted. But, I also believe actions have consequences. I do not like supporting irresponsible people. If you want the gummint to support your family than the gummint should have the option of limiting your family size. A woman who is on welfare has no business having any more children.

Phobos - There was no racism in this post unless you interpret my mentioning Washington DC which is 80% black. I realize that there are more whites than blacks on welfare. I have stated that many times on this site. Are you one of those people who look for racism behind every tree? Do you think the word niggardly is racist?

fastdad - Yeah working hard should get you out of poverty. It's one of my three rules of avoiding poverty. However, the highest rate of poverty is among children. That is because they were born to unwed mothers or poor fathers. Children are the biggest reason for poverty.

bbbustard - Now this will sound racist. Mississippi has a very big black population. Illegitimacy is highest among blacks. Vermont has a very low black population. It would also be interesting to compare abortion rates in Vermont to abortion rates in Mississippi. Anyone know where to look for that? Never mind. I found it. The abortion rate in Mississippi is 6%. The abortion rate in Vermont is 17%.

I'm sorry to say this but using Lincoln in this debate was one of the dumbest things I've read in any comment thread. As another commenter brought up, there was no welfare back then. Gummint didn't take any responsibility for people having children they could not afford. The family supported the children or the children died. People were much more self reliant back then. My greatgrandfather Cyrus Freeman had 19 children. He got no gummint assistance. He supported and raised all 19 of 'em.

No wonder that Fathers Day is so confusing to those in the black communities!

I've got a quick but not so simple solution...

"Stupid people shouldn't be able to reproduce. Stupid people breed stupid people."

- I think at this point any thing is worth a shot. you should now be required to have a desent IQ in order to reproduce.

Here I am, so cowardly I was afraid of marriage responsibilities and kids, so never married and no kids. How can I that begin to compare with your greatgranddy Cyrus, 19 kids! Wow! What a real man and father. You must be related to about 10% of America.

My greatgrandfather Cyrus Freeman had 19 children. He got no gummint assistance. He supported and raised all 19 of 'em.

He would have raisen them better with assistance, no ?
A society needs child. If there are none, who will take care of you when you'll be to old ? Nowadays it costs more money to raise a child than in your ancestor's time. It's better to have a growing population with financial assistance than an ageing one (think of your recruiting officers chasing in the poor class to avoid the return of conscription)... A poor can become rich (especially in your coutry), an old can just become dead.

You are being way to kind saying 60 %..
Before LBJ launched his 'great society' welfare state (and before Roe vs Wade) the national black illegitamacy rate was 28 %. Measured again in the 1990's it climbed to 68 %..

Oh, wait, I may be confusing Illegitimacy with single parent families..Christ..I am getting old..

Gene, you're an ignorant fuck. You can munch on my ballsack. Though I run the risk of offending the more intelligent readers from your neck of the woods, I'll say it anyway. It's nothing short of what I expect of someone from Flor-Duh.

You're right, Prosper. A society needs children, children make the country grow and become more prosperous. But, if you have a growing population and the majority are receiving some sort of assistance, who/where does that money come from? This is the major drawback of a socialist society. When you take from the producers (those who make the money) and give to the non-producers, you take away the incentive to produce. Thus you have created a stagnant society that will never advance. Why should I work hard when numbnuts over there stands around with his thumb in his ass and we both make the same amount?
As for the return of conscription (or "the draft" as it is more popularly known), we have not needed that since Vietnam. All of our "major conflicts" have been fought with a volunteer force. The recruiters may hit poor neighborhoods to pad their numbers (they do have monthly quotas to meet), but I see it as offering these kids a way out of poverty that they otherwise may not have. I joined the Navy when I was 17. The recruiter didn't even have to really speak to me, because when I entered his office it was set in my mind that I was joining and that was that. It was my way out of where I was (small town Illinois with little to no job opportunity). It was also education that I could not afford, training for use in the civilian job force, decent pay (a damn sight better than the minimum wage I was earning), travel, and 20 years to retirement if I liked it enough. Plus I invested some money in a plan that would pay for 4 years of college when I left the Navy, called the GI Bill. What is so bad about that?

"They (un-wed teen mothers) see their babies as a gift." Of course they do. Just as the immature always see a puppy or kitten or some other fuzzy cuddly creature as a desirable "gift". Once the "gift" demonstrates its requirement for constant feeding, incessant shitting, and relentless care demands and training needs, the "gift" becomes an intrusion and a burden.

As long as the state and society at large indulge the behavior of "no consequences" (see Stuck on Stupid), we can expect a continuing geometric increase in the size of an increasingly entitlement minded class of dependents.

TomR said "You are so right about adoption laws. I know people who have waited years and still have not been able to adopt. Good, good people. And a neighbor went thru the nightmare you mentioned of a birth mother showing up and wanting her child back. It was a costly process but the adoptive parents won. What the courts, lawyers and birth mother overlooked was the trauma on the child, 6 years old."

Yeah Tom I know a few similar stories about some very decent folks in California (Some of the worst adoption laws)that would break your heart. As you can tell, I'm pretty angry about it.
John Stossell (give me a break on 20/20) did special on this issue some years ago. Really left a lasting impact.

Hey Denny i luv this blog

According to Thomas Sowell isn't the biggest reason for poverty actually your age? Doesn't he say all the time that the rich and the poor are really the same people at different stages of their life?

I was raised by a single mom and my grouchyoldcripple grandmother and we were poor but we were happy. One of the things my grandmother taught me was to never make excuses for myself. I put myself through college after a stint in the service with little to no help from my mom. I have a friend who has the same story as me only he never met his dad.

I have only one wife and two kids. My wife is the only woman I have ever slept with. Whether it prevents poverty or not I can't really say but marriage makes me very happy.

Bravo Fastdad...It seems you were grounded in responsibility. I'm glad to see that you elevated yourself out of the poverty situation and are still happy. God's Speed

Prosper - I grew up poor. My father was an alcoholic. This was before the Great Fucking Society. No Food Stamps. No gummint assistance. My sister won a four year scholarship. Became a computer programmer and at retirement, she and her husband (who also grew up poor. Didn't have indoor plumbing until he was a teenager)were worth over $1 million. I flunked out of college, but joined the Navy and learned electronics. Went back to college on the GI Bill. Didn't finish, but got a job with IBM, worked hard, invested wisely, and at retirement, I, too was worth over $1 million. No gummint assistance. My parents could only afford two children. That's all they had. What a novel concept!

Because I am a sexist I believe that most if not all women want to have children. Just like most if not all men want to have Cindy Crawford. Only my experience speaking but it seems like having babies when you are young and fertile and can least afford it is normal. Kind of forces you to tell em "no" when you might otherwise be tempted to spoil them. Spoiling is the prerogative of grandparents and not for parents. What does seem abnormal is having babies by yourself. Doing this intentionally seems stupid. Regardless of your financial condition.

Isn't what we are ageeing on is that its gummint assistance that keeps people poor not necessarily having kids?

Prosper said "He would have raised them better with assistance, no ?
A society needs child. If there are none, who will take care of you when you'll be to old ? Nowadays it costs more money to raise a child than in your ancestor's time. It's better to have a growing population with financial assistance than an ageing one (think of your recruiting officers chasing in the poor class to avoid the return of conscription)... A poor can become rich (especially in your country), an old can just become dead."

Sorry Prosper you are overly optimistic of the type of character that this person will grow up to be. Let's see. No Parental guidance or love? No social or moral responsibilities? I see jail bait here. Guess who will end up taking care of him now. Every American tax payer that has to pump more money into a growing prison system.
Wonderful future, Are you really think this guys will be able or will to take care of anyone?
Yes it is true that a poor person can become rich and vise versa but this is more the exception than the rule especially among those that have been raised to expect others to do Everything for them.

It takes something inside and usually it is something that they experienced as a child. Something or someone inspired them. This is where Jesse Jackson, Calypso Louie and Al Sharpton (deliberately) miss the boat. You can’t inspire anyone by blaming someone else.

Cheers

yep scaryguy...gummint assistance...it robs the people of one generation of their dignity and sets their children on a path that leads to entrenched poverty. They grow up knowing nothing more important than where to pick up the gummint check.

Moogie said "Right..the shot is a good idea, in theory..but, what about more education? What about offering free health care/planned parenthood to those folks? Ok, probably stupid yes? But what have we done to educate ANYONE about this. People...look at the system..which preaches abstinence....or the old "aspirin between the knees technique."

MORE EDUCATION???!!!???!!!?

How about this technique.

OK we all took the health care classes in High School. Ya'know the one that told you about the dangers of smoking. And there still are smokers and smoking related diseases,

Right.

What we should have done is this. You smoke, health insurance is double, come back in six months if you quit we lower your fee, if not, it's triple. (Damn)!!!!!:(
Can we do that, yes we can. We're paying for it. One way or another.

Same goes for welfare. Norplant implant birth control or no welfare money. That is a simple education that might actually work. (Damn)!!!!!:) If you don't have kids to take care of, you can go to school, join the military or do something productive with your life. Get a good paying JOB and get off welfare. Taaaa..Daaaaaa...See how that works.

Cheers

Hate to give Planned Parenthood credit for anything, but an ad they ran in the '60s hit the nail on the head. It showed a pensive young woman, and was captioned: What do you MEAN you don't know him well enough to discuss birth control?

Poor should be homosexual: No way that they reproduce! :)

Denny wrote : My sister won a four year scholarship. Became a computer programmer and at retirement, she and her husband (who also grew up poor. Didn't have indoor plumbing until he was a teenager)were worth over $1 million. I flunked out of college, but joined the Navy and learned electronics. Went back to college on the GI Bill

so your parents couldn't afford to pay for your education, but with assitance you and your sister became self-sufficient. What if a Grouchy Old Cripple had wanted to strerilized your mother ? You keep saying you've got a lot of money, but no child. On the other side, poors with childs and no money... That mix, no ?

In today's welfare society, where financial support for food, clothing, and housing is provided by the state, the role of the father has been replaced by confiscated taxpayer dollars. This is in line with the goals of the femi-nazi movement which is to minimize the roles of males in society. Of course, we are now seeing the true cost of that bankrupt philosophy, and are substantially worse off for it. Yet again, another liberal theory down the toilet - but then which one isn't?

Prosper said "so your parents couldn't afford to pay for your education, but with assistance you and your sister became self-sufficient."

Prosper, What assistance are you talking about? If you are referring to a scholarship, that's not assistance. At least not in the terms that you probably understand them. College education is not free here in the US as it is in Europe. A scholarship is like winning the lottery. There are a few giving out to the High School student that maintains a high grade point average or SAT scores. There is a big difference in the education systems between our two countries. It is a point of argument perhaps for another thread. My wife is German and educated in the German University, so I have a source of reference. Warning… you may not want to get into this debate with me.

I’m not well versed on how scholarships work and I realize that not all scholarships are full scholarships. After the scholarship money runs out, the rest of the tuition is paid in student loans etc or dear old Mom and Dad.

I finished my college while on active duty. I’m proud to say, I spent very little time on a college campus. Less distractions, although some of the parties and college girls would have been nice (As my wife slaps me in the back of the head:-)

As for Denny's assistance. I believe it is part of the GI bill for his military service. The GI Bill was established after the World War II . It was a much better benefit for returning veterans that were returning from the First World War. (Ahammm, clearing my throat)

After the GI's literally saving the world from tyranny. (Again, Ahammmm, clearing my throat ) The GI bil helped defray the cost of attending university and helped veterans re-enter the work force. The economic return on that investment is immeasurable. It is one of the few Big Government programs that I happen to believe in.

This benefit is still in place today. It is an agreement between the US citizen and the US military for their service in the US military. It is one of the strongest benefits for young people to "Volunteer" for the US military. Also, while you are in the military, a small amount of you salary is deducted and for the GI bill and after your 3 or 4 years are up, you get several thousands of dollar guaranteed for college tuition.
Over the years, the government has fiddled around with this program. When I was in it was called VEAP (Veteran's Education Assistance Program) and it sucked. It got better with the Montgomery GI bill. I think that is where it is today.
Believe me it is not assistance as you understand it. Some GI’s have paid for this “assistance” in blood.

In france, you benefit of scholarship when you're poor, and while you're succeeding at school.
In your country, according to you it's more aleatory.
But it's an assistance provided by government, no ?
And if every parents could afford to pay for the education of their child, the army wouldn't have to pay for it. So again it's an assitance. It's tit for tat, but still...

Prosper - It's an assistance that is earned. As you said, tit for tat. But earned. Just like scholarships. They are earned. Not given. In Georgia we have sumpin' called the Hope Scholarship that is paid for by the Georgia Lottery. I love it! The lottery is a tax on the stupid. To get this scholarship, the students have to maintain a B average throughout high school. Then in college, as with all scholarships, they have to maintain a certain grade point average. My sister's scholarship was not provided by the gummint. It was provided by the university she attended. It was based on her grades in high school, her SAT scores, and her score on the National Merit test.

I don't consider the GI Bill gummint assistance. It was part of my compensation I received by being in the Navy for four years, plus 3 years in the Navy Reserves. Back then, military pay was very low. To compensate for that, they gave you money towards a college education. It doesn't pay all of it (I still had to take school loans), but it did give me money. Once again, this is earned. Now tell me what a welfare brood mare does to earn her welfare check other than having babies that she expects me to support.

Prosper ……Yes, generally scholarships are sought my kids who don't have other financial means. But you calling it "assistance" make it sound as though it is another form of welfare. Scholarships are based on grades and it is not a given that you will get a scholarship. Welfare or assistance is more or less is a given regardless of your intellect or grade point average. In other words, you can be a shiftless, lazy moron and qualify for welfare. There are no qualifications other than not having or willing to have the means to support yourself to get welfare.

Winning a scholarship is an honorable thing, Winning welfare is NOT.
Sometimes, Welfare, like shit, happens. It was designed it be a hand up but now it is used as a hand out. Naturally, welfare is badly abused.

As for the GI bill, again your understanding of "assistance" make it sound as some give it to me program the recipient did nothing to earn. The GI bill is an agreement between the US Government and the military volunteer that the GI is a benefit that they have at the end of their military service.

Again the GI bill is honorable.
Welfare "assistance" is not honorable

OK Denny, I think we tag teamed Prosper, He is crawling off the mat. I understand his mind set, unfortunately he is the product of a social welfare state. At least he seems to be a frequent visitor to this blog, so he may learn something yet. In the end, Big Government hand outs are worth NOTHING.

OK Prosper, you are entitled to opinion and at least you have the guts to express it. It may very well be a matter of prospective on this issue, but it has been my own experience that things that are given away are not worth much. Even if it is just something that is internal to you.
Cheers

Denny - I understand your resentment against the young lady, but wanting to sterilize her (apart from being uncivilized and highly reprehensible), it's condemning potential childs who could earn the assistance of the society. You always refer to your alcoholic father who apparently was not able to provide all what you needed. Don't you think guys like you could have been bored he had another child ?

According to your experience, those kids may win a scholarship or choose to serve their country in the army, no ?

Oh, scaryguy, i may be a product of social welfare state (like 95% of the world population in your mind), but my wife and i work both and raise 3 childs, and i'm happy to pay taxes to avoid sterilizing young women !

Prosper - You just don't get it. I know that we will never have forced sterilization. That is a radical solution to a problem that should be able to be fixed other ways. The greatest cause of poverty in this country is people having children who cannot afford them. Also, many of these women are unwed mothers. Do you know what happens to the sons? They turn into criminals. They turn into sperm donors. The daughters turn into welfare brood mares. Ya want to solve poverty? Stop people from having children they cannot afford and cannot raise properly. Forced sterilization is one way. Another way is tying the welfare check to the norplant patch or some other form of birth control.

Already your welfare state in France is starting to feel the effect of your social programs. Your gummint is facing the choice of cutting benefits or raising taxes. You also have your growing Muslim population that also is gonna start straining your welfare state.

Ok, late post probably not read but I'll go ahead.

What on earth is "poverty"? How is it defined? Has it been cured in Europe? I lived in germany for 2 years and I know it has not. I know what "robbery" is. Has that been stopped as well? Is "robbery" a solution to "poverty"? Or is "robbery" just another social ill? Or do we get real stupid and define "robbery" as justice?

If government assistance has made things so much better in Europe then why are they crawling over each other to come here?

The answer is that it hasn't. I would never want to live in Germany. A middle class person in Europe basically lives like a lower class person in America. Its an indirect result of government assistance.

http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/walterwilliams/2005/10/26/172901.html

Exploring the environment and causes of poverty. Note he statistically correlates marriage and poverty not children and poverty. Also note that the "cause" he derives from a separate report where apparently it has something to do with people not willing to get out of bed and go to work.