Are you sure the little Renaults are not just spontaneously combusting because they are sick and tired of just being French and its their *only* way out?

I will NOT support a war that promotes our troops dying for wine .........it is just too much to ask..........open up the wine cellars pull from the napa valley or even if we must upstate New York has endless supplies of grapes.

It seems that the weapon of mass destruction in France is a liter of gas and a French/ Muslim teenager. If they burning French Renaults that would be a big improvement for the French roadways. Those are ugly little cars and nightmares to work on.

Hey All

How do you stop a French Tank. Shoot the guy pushing it. :-) Sorry, my attempt an Monday humor.

Cheers

I thought the way to stop a french tank is to disable its reverse gear.

Rob

Who would want those pieces of junk to stay. But good point.

Frances most modern tank has six reverse gears, and one forward in case the enemy gets behind them.
10,000 cars? have the French begun colaborating? how else do you explain that unusually high number?

A war ? Where ? I see only fiew poor bad teenagers burning cars... they are young and little, this isn't a war, there's no death. Only bad education, parents will be punished.
And by the way, Reanult = Nissan didn't you know ?

Do you want us to send you some of this young men to burn cars and revitalize your car industry ?
In April 2005, General Motors posted a US$1.1-billion loss. For 2004 Renault reported a 43% rise in net income to €3.5 billion and 5.9% operating margin, of which Nissan contributed €1,767 million.

Maybe our young muslims fellas could help to increase pensions in your car industry !

;-)

Did you know that your news on CNN didn't even display a correct map of France ? Strastbourg was in Germany for instance ... Lille was in Belgium ...

Don't you think that you can't relay on journalists who don't even bother finding the correct topology of the country they are talking about ?

When you call this a war, you 're doing the same mistakes, you don't know what's realy happening, so you can't extrapolate like you do, it's dangerous.

The main problem isn't musulism, it's education. Uneducated teenagers have no moral, they can burn steal or beat. Morever, the islamist ones (there were christians in the rioters) use these riots trying to brain wash some more poor teenagers.

So we will cut all help from the state to the parents who let their children (under 18) burn cars.
The foreigners over 18 who did riots will be brought back to their border. Others sent to prison.

Over history, they were more crimes in LA than in Paris, it's always the same, poor foreigners feeling rejected will do all they can to mess the country, 'cause their life is already a mess.

The violence by white youths as well as French-born citizens of African and Arab origin began in Paris suburbs after the deaths of two youngsters apparently fleeing police.
It swiftly turned into a broader protest against racism, police treatment and poor job prospects in tough neighbourhoods.

I'm not sure your illegal mexican suburbs are less dangerous than our poor suburbs.

good point prosper, GM 0 Renault 1

Pierce look up humor.

GM? Is it the stucked car manufacturer that put all its strategy in producing SUV and 4WD? ouch!Means a bunch of americans unemployed, ready to work at Mc Donald!
Ho! And by the way: what about the "great" Ford F series? (plunged of 30 percent)
check this one
Too bad!! :)

ouch ! If you're fed up with buying japanese cars, we are waiting for you at Nissan's and Renault's...
In Europe, no problem, since we already have low consumption cars.
Mine is 4 litters for 100 km, like 4 times less than yours... And I can drive to 200km/h, so why do american love so much big trucks with high consumption levels, which don't even go faster??

Unless you want to pull off a tree, it's a bit useless isn't it?

Why do we love big trucks, well probably because we actually do work with them. I had a Chevy Blazer for 4 years moved more furinture and, pulled more cars out of ditches in the winter than I can remember, my dad has a hemi dodge ram for the same reason so big trucks for big work

hmmmmm....Muslim teenagers burning cars and rioting and our French contributors are talking about the superiority of their car manufacturers.

Good article by Dr. Thomas Sowell. It is as I suspected. Wage controls creating long term systemic unemployment. Socialism...its all fun and games until someone gets hurt. We do have the same problem with wage controls here in the States.

But when we have riots though they are not usually by children.

That is what is crazy about this. These kids are not doing this without the permission and guidance of adults somewhere.

Let's do some conversion here.

100 km = 54 miles
4L = 1.05 gal

So what you're saying is that your car gets 51.43 miles per gallon (mpg) of gas? Not bad, since typically the European cars are about half the size of the cars in America. Your car gets less than half the mileage of my 98 Nissan Sentra(30mpg/12.1km/L @126k miles...needs a tune-up), and not quite 3 times the mileage(20 mpg/8 km/L average city & highway) of my Jeep. Your LeCar only gets 21.2km/L at best. And if you're going 200kph (125 mph), you're not getting 51 mpg, it's considerably less.

Personally, I don't like those little deathtraps y'all drive simply because I don't like having my knees beating my chin while I'm behind the wheel. Pierce, you live in the inner city. My guess is you work in the inner city too. I'll even venture to say that you probably don't even drive to work, you take public transit. So you probably don't spend much time in the car anyway to even care about comfort. The inner cities here are shit, nobody wants to live there. The middle class moves out of the city to the suburbs, and only the very rich or very poor live close to the inner city. I drive an 80 mile (128.75 km) round trip every day that I work(only 4 days/week), each way takes me about 45 minutes or so depending on traffic. I refuse to use public transport because the system here is shit, and would take me 2-1/2 hours or more each way. I value my time, so I drive. I also value my money so I carpool with 2 other people.

uh mike, when you say european car, you obviously don't mean BMW or Mercedes?

Mike - your right, my car is very small, but as I use it everyday it help me save a lot of money.

"And if you're going 200kph (125 mph), you're not getting 51 mpg, it's considerably less."
Yep of course, at that speed it's more like 14L for 100 km instead of 4L/100km.

But as most of the time I drive safely (to keep my license) it never goes higher than 6L/100km in the worse cases because of the stops and road lights.
Carpool is also a very good solution.

-fastdad : "hmmmmm....Muslim teenagers burning cars and rioting and our French contributors are talking about the superiority of their car manufacturers."

Not of the superiority of our car manufacturer, they are clearly less powerfull no doubt about this.
Just showing that it's not because our economic system is less efficient than yours that we can't make better results. For this, we just use foreign economic systems.

If Renault is doing well, it's not thanks to its French cars...But they are good businessmen. They've got good traders inside the compagny. They made good investment whith their money.

Pierce said "ouch ! If you're fed up with buying japanese cars, we are waiting for you at Nissan's and Renault's...
In Europe, no problem, since we already have low consumption cars.
Mine is 4 litters for 100 km, like 4 times less than yours... And I can drive to 200km/h, so why do american love so much big trucks with high consumption levels, which don't even go faster??

Unless you want to pull off a tree, it's a bit useless isn't it?"

No....that's what we haul all our guns around in.

Prosper said "uh mike, when you say european car, you obviously don't mean BMW or Mercedes?"

Ummmm, Those vechicles are being built in Germany and the USA. Not France. Your right that they are very nice cars, Mercades and BMW also build SUV's Nissen, Honda and Toyata build Pick up trucks. If there is a market the auto industry will build it.
Currently, they are not burning their cars in Germany yet.

Well, I wonder how many miles to the gallon or liter that a French Fire Engine gets? They seem to be the only thing on the roads in France that is not on fire. You guys need to stick to the point. If someone was trying to burn my car SUV or truck, they would get shot. Period. I fight back with superior firepower. Nuff said.

scarguy, you would be able to shoot a 15 years old kid because he tries to burn your car??

waouh, you're right you're a courageous guy !

Would you have shot me for having blow up your mailbox for fun ? Because when I was 13 years old and was a stupid young rebel, I blew up a mailbox one time with some friends, just to do something funny and forbidden. Kids can be stupid when they're in a group.
My parents would have killed me but they never knew.

When you were a kid, you never did something stupid and forbidden?
Were you a kid who always listened to his parents?

They need a good kick in the bot, they don't deserve death penalty for this.
They received no education, their parents are the ones to blame.

You're confusing everything : terrorism, musulism, poor people, kids foolishness, unemployement, religions ...

scareguy - The world is too complex to fit your simplistic view , that's why you will never understand it, you' will never know that you can't understand it and you'll do the contrary of God will without even knowing you're doing so.

Pierce-
Please enlighten us all on what "GOD's will" is. If someone is attempting to burn my truck out of random rage, and I have a gun (and I have plenty) and if warn them (that's a BIG if) that I will shoot them if they do, and they still do it and get shot and die, that is GOD's will!

God will is forgiveness, love, understanding, humanity.

Catholics do not believe in revenge like Protestants.
Revenge never brings any one satisfactions, revenge is a feeling put inside you by your own evils and it ends making you full of anger and unhappynness.

You're telling me that Anger, can make you shoot a 15 years old kid ?
Or that your car worth more than his life ?

It's not God will, it looks more like Lucifere temptation of power and anger.

Who talked about a dark side brought by Anger?

It's a methapore, but still I find Star Wars very intersting in its analyse of human feelings and temptations.

'Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to sorrow."

Scarguy - I agree with you - a 15 year old punk tries torching my truck, car, house or attempts to harm me or my neighbors - he will be stopped with lethal force. Pierce the only reason the punks in France spent all this time burning and rioting is no one in the French government would stand up and do what is needed. If I'am a firefighter or cop and someone is shooting at me while doing my job which is to protect the people and property in my area then by God let's put a few rounds into a couple and see just how far they (the muslim punks) want to push the issue.

Pierce-
I wouldn't be shooting a "15 yr. old" out of anger. It would be called fair warning. I work my ass off for what I have, and if some dumbfuck is stupid enough to go around destroying property that isn't his (and is MINE), and is lucky enough to get a warning from me that I will shoot him if he does it, and he still does it, then it's as simple as one with power (me and my gun) vs. one without it. Our country isn't as pussified as yours is (YET). Most of us actually understand that we have the right to defend ourselves, and our property and are capable of doing so. Thus, don't fuck with what isn't yours, if you can't deal with the consequences.

Pierce the only reason the punks in France spent all this time burning and rioting is no one in the French government would stand up and do what is needed

Yep, I fully agree, and I would have a gun, I don't say I couldn't shoot, but there are other ways than killing.
I might shoot but I would regret it. I'm not sure a car worth the remorse of a killing.

I was including all Euro manufacturers and also American manufacturers who produce cars for Europe. The closest I could come to comparing the smallest American cars with those in the same class from Europe was here. I may have exaggerated a bit when I said they were "half the size", but the city cars and microcars come pretty damn close. I once had a BMW 325e, it was a great car, but had very little room and was expensive as hell to fix. Afterward I bought a Pontiac Grand Am, and was amazed at the difference in size. Amazingly enough, I've seen the Grand Am listed as a "compact" car. Still seems funny to me, as I thought it was considered more a mid-size. Oh, well.

Pierce, I agree with you that those kids need an ass-whoopin'. Unfortunately, the parents probably won't provide such a service, since it seems that corporal punishment has gone the way of the dodo bird. At least in the US and Europe. Latin America is a whole different can of worms. There are also times when an adolescent must be treated as an adult when they commit crime. At that time in their lives they should already be instilled with the difference between right and wrong. Should they not heed warnings or at the least common sense, then they must pay the consequences of their actions. Or as CharlieDelta so eloquently put it, "Thus, don't fuck with what isn't yours, if you can't deal with the consequences." Regrettably, sometimes the only thing people understand or will cause them to cease their actions is violence.

Make the rioters and those who instagated the riots pay for the losts property or is chiraq too chicken to do so will he demand that the american tax payets foot the bill?

These are NOT stupid young rebels. If they were these acts would be random and sporadic. These are children being manipulated for devious reasons. If the French are dumb enough to mistake these youth for stupid young rebels then the adults behind these acts will have succeeded. For the sake of France and the rest of Europe lets hope the French authorities do not make that mistaken assumption.

Pierce-
I forgot to answer your question. You asked if my car is worth more than "his" life. I use my truck to get to and from work. I use my truck for work, to make a living (i.e. MY life). So to answer that question, I say ab-so-fucking-lutely! I do value MY life over a scumbag's life.

Pierce.....First of all, I am Catholic (Pissed -Off Catholic, a new order) We make the Jesuits look like pansies. :-) I when to Catholic school for 12 years. A fine education I might add. 95% of the graduates from my high school finished college. How's that for an education!

Still, I believe in one immutable fact. The only way to enforce justice is to make sure that the bad guy, even a 15 year old punk realize how much he or she will loose by their BAD behavior.

YES I could shoot someone trying to destroy my property. In a New York minute. (I'm from there too) They didn't pay for it and they have NO right to destroy it.

Didn't ever wonder why the vandalism has gone on as long as it has. It's because they knew how far they can Play you. They were counting on your government doing nothing. Even the LA riots ended after 4 days and sending inn the Armed National Guard.

These punks are playing you from a stronger hand. Next time it will be worse and better organized. They Won....you Dummy. Get it.

BTW....I Love to stir the pot, one of my favorite topics was debate. I didn't always win but I always learned. It keeps life interesting with the exchange of ideas.

Cheers

Uh Mike, may i ask you how much do you weigh ? Maybe our cars are adapted to our european maesurings, don't you think ?

;-)

I'm a 5'6", 52 year old woman. If I saw someone torching the only thing I have to get to work (and is PAID FOR), damn skippy I'd shoot him. I'm nicer, though, in that I'd fire a warning shot first. If that doesn't convey the message, then he'd get it with my 20 gauge.

And thanks for the snotty European inference that Mike is overweight, Prosper. How haughty of you.

Elizabeth
Imperial Keeper

I weigh about 200 lbs. Though I appreciate your attempt at humor, and seeing how the world views all Americans as fat, let's look at some facts:

"According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, more than 60 percent of Americans are overweight and of these, more than 30 percent are obese (such as having a BMI of more than 30). This number is increasing at an alarming rate. From 1960 to 1964, the percentage of overweight Americans increased from 13 percent to 23 percent, and today more than 60 percent of American adults are overweight. Yet Americans are not alone in this pandemic. Twenty percent of European adults are obese as well, which means that 15 to 30 million people in the United Kingdom, France and Germany are at risk of developing the serious health problems that can affect people whose BMIs exceed 30. And the problem is not limited to those who live in the West. The incidence of obesity may be lower in some Asian countries, but the rate of increase in these countries is comparable to the rate seen here." --read the article

Also check here, here and here. It would seem that everyone is getting fatter, not just Americans.

BMI stands for Body Mass Index. It is calculated by the formula, BMI = [Weight(lbs)/Height(inches)^2] x 704.5 or BMI = [weight (kg) x height (m)^2]

However, this is not totally accurate. If I told you I was 200lbs and 69 inches tall, my BMI would be 30, considering me as being obese. But if my waist is 32 inches, I have an 18 inch neck, 20 inch biceps and body fat of 8%, am I really obese? No. Of course, this is hypothetical, since really, yeah, I'm a chunky monkey. :P I need to eat less and move around more. Back to the subject at hand, the only true way to measure whether someone is overweight is by a body fat measurement, hydrostatic weighing being the best method and the next best is measuring bioelectric impedance.

I have a motto, "Eat right, exercise, die anyway."

Yeah, I'm 74 inches and weighing in at 210 and my weight has not went up much since the military. I'm in pretty good shape for a 47 year old man. I mountain bike and I can keep up with the kids half my age. Also, I mountain bike a 7,000 feet above sea level and it's tougher than at sea level. According to the BMI my ideal weight is 169 lbs. If I was that weight everyone would think I had AIDS or cancer. I would look very sickly. I think my wife would not like it too much either. I'm a pretty solid fellow so that should give you a good indication of where the CDC is on Health/weight. They don't know what is the right cholesterol level.

Shooting someone bent on violence would be no problem. People in that state of mind tend to attack onlookers as has been evidenced by the happenings at riots in Ohio and L.A.

I'm not sure your illegal mexican suburbs are less dangerous than our poor suburbs.

One of the Euroweenies wrote the above comment.

First of all the USA doesn't have 'illegal Mexican (with a capital M) suburbs' Our illegals are scattered throughout the country and they work....W-O-R-K.

I think you need to get some of your facts straight, Frenchie.

All the justification in the world won't change what we see on film from France. Those aren't 'little boys' burning cars I see being arrested...how about school buses, mail delivery trucks, police vehicles?...Again, you underestimate our intelligence. Because there is an ocean separating us, don't assume we don't have friends or family in Europe who are seeing what is going on first hand.

Pierce,

Would you have shot me for having blow up your mailbox for fun ? Because when I was 13 years old and was a stupid young rebel, I blew up a mailbox one time with some friends, just to do something funny and forbidden. Kids can be stupid when they're in a group.

If you tried that with me you would get one of two things. If you tried running, a light load of bird shot across your ass. Might not even break your clothes, but would sting like hell. If you didn't run you would get the tongue lashing of a lifetime, build me a new mail box, and if I liked you (and thought ya a good kid) you might learn a few things.

If it was a riot zone though, the rules would change. I wouldn't be able to assume you were just a kid gone dumb with his friends.

In the August issue of the New Yorker (not on line unfortunately), Adam Gopnik was estimating that if the same conditions were applying to France as they apply in the US, unemployment in France would be 4%.
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
And here riots are almost finished, and the problem was identified as mostly an educative problem because of irresponsible parents who don't raise their children and let them in the streets, most of the time, musulisms.

For those who still think France is one of the last in the European economy, here is link that shows reality, we're second.

http://libe.fr/obj/500/IMAGE_T5_49942.jpg

See, No riots any more, finished, with only 1 dead. Strength isn't a necessity against kids.

Yep! All you lost was a bunch of property and insurance will pay for that, right? Of course, now the "kids" see how easy y'all buckle under. Next time it will be worse, and worse, and worse. Keep your heads in the sand and appease just like you did with Hitler back in the 30's. We all know how well that turned out.