Lets see, We were'nt supposed to last a day without a Mexican, well the day is over and I didn't miss them. several of the Mexicans I work with are as outraged over this as we are. this is the wrong horse for the Democrats to hitch their wagons to.
Hilary,Kennedy and Kerry all just put their faces on a horses ass going into the elections.
the voting public generaly have jobs and will not miss work for something they can adress in November and in 08.

We have liberals salivating about Republicans coming out against illegal immigration. It will kill Republicans, they say. Maybe they are looking at different polls. The American peope are against illegal immigration. All polling data says so. They want our borders secure. The only way Republicans can botch this is by listening to Dimocrats. If they do, their base will stay home.

I'm one of those salivating liberals. If you haven't understood my point before, let me attempt to re-explain it to you. Right now, the immigration issue isn't a losing issue for Republicans (unless you're in a district with a high percentage of Latinos).

The reason Democrats are so gleeful about the conundrum Republicans are faced with is that the proportion of the electorate which is Latino is increasing every year. The bill is going to come due. While some Republicans are not hard on illegal immigration, most are. And that is turning the fastest growing voting bloc in the country against the Republican Party.

The Republican Party cannot mollify its base without repelling Latino voters. This is not a fatal problem right now. But it will be...and soon.

>>right hand raised. Yes, I am the so called liberal mentioned that bitched to Denny about the illegal's probem here in the heartland. Denny, You are the one that labeled me a Liberal. Do I need to go over with you again about putting people in neat little boxes? I am not all about black and white, such as yourself.

Thanks for the laugh scott-

And thanks for playing. You're hilarious!

Thanks for the laugh scott-
And thanks for playing. You're hilarious!

You are very welcome. Do you really think it is hilarious that the immigration issue is a major problem for Republicans, particularly in the near future? Or do you disagree with my analysis? If so, please explain yourself (if you can). I don't think trenchant political anaysis is quite your forte, Chuck.

Sorry man, I didn't realize this was a "major problem" for the the Pubs, "particulary in the 'near future'".

I definately find it funny that you reference the typical emotional liberal talking points. That's funny in itself.

I'm still trying to figure out what your point is scott. Do you have one, or are you just here to rub sand in your vagina while you piss and moan??

Please enlighten me...

I'm still trying to figure out what your point is scott

Sorry Chuck, I don't think I can dumb it down any more for you. Could someone else try to explain this to Chuck in small words for me? Thanks

Still no point scott? You can't explain it yourself? It's okay lil' buddy.! Someday, you'll get it.

I'm still waiting for your point, scott. do you have one, or are you all about "dumbing it down"??

C'mon scottie...

I'm still waiting for your point. Do you have one?

I'm curious when our Constitution made allowances for non-citizens of this country to protest in the first place. I also don't understand why there aren't agents there arresting and deporting all the illegals who are protesting. Hell, go old school on them.. Ride in there with a lasso and a six-shooter on each hip.. I would solve the "not enough manpower to find and arrest them" problem.. How many you think they'd get??

What really pisses me off is seeing their kids throwing rocks at cops.. Like those little Palestinian kids you see on the news throwing rocks at Isreali police. I keep a fairly open mind.. I figure this is the greatest country on the planet, why wouldn't they want to come here (although they should do it legally)? However, when I see things like that, I just want to be rid of them...

My thoughts exactly concerning the working non-protesters, like me, hearing this mess on the airwaves as I'm going home from my job. I'm working while these people are demonstrating in favor of illegal activity. How about we start protesting to legalize armed robbery (I could use some extra income, how about you?), or drug dealing, or auto theft?
The point is clear, we need to write our congresscritters and senators and encourage them to show a spine in their work that we pay them for... remind them who votes today!

Oh, and create a new holiday to replace drinko- er- cinco de mayo. Don't want to boycott and hurt buinesses, just celebrate something American. Any suggestions?

(echo) (echo) (echo)

c'mon scott... Please "dumb it down" for me guy.

Instead of taking up Denny's bandwidth, how about you email me directly guy??

You wanna debate, or do you wanna piss and moan?

c'mon scott... Please "dumb it down" for me guy.

Do you have to broadcast your idiocy to everyone? I guess that's your right.

I've made the point several times that the immigration issue hurts the Republican party now and will hurt them more and more every election cycle from now on. Unless they want to turn their back on their base, the Republicans are precluded from significantly softening their stance on illegal aliens.

This problem for the Republicans is a boon for Democrats, which means that Democrats are going to have a big electoral advantage for the forseeable future.

Get it now, Chuck? If not, you can e-mail me with your questions.

And we know your point(less-ness), scott. It's obvious you hate Bush. Point taken!

We get it! What else do you have besides your broken record that is your hatred for W and the Pubs/Conservs? Anything?

Chuck

Check your email, douchebag.

YAWN...

"Get it now, Chuck? If not, you can e-mail me with your questions."

I already did, smart guy. Still waiting for a reply...

Where'd you go snot? charliedelta72@yahoo.com

Sctt, you must know CD has serious drinking problems.
Don't judge him, please...

Prosper-
I wasn't aware that I had "serious drinking problems". Thanks for clearing that one up for me! Scott can judge me all he wants.

CD, you was aware that a buffalo with this pink color, this strange frontal protuberance and those giant hears was not an ordinary one, wasn't you ? Maybe you presumed it was a fucking gay mexican one ?

Maybe I presumed that it was a fucking french faggoty protuberance. What's your point?

"Fucking French Faggoty Protuberance"...
what is it? the latest movie you ordered on the net ?

Again prosper,
What's your point?

Are you sad that you live in a broken cuntry? I don't blame you. I would be too.

The irony is that the more the Democrats embrace illegal immigration, the more they will drive the labor rank and file away. Samuel Gompers must be rolling over in his grave. Who would have ever thought that the so called Labor Movement would support the Big Business practice of importing what are virtually indentured servants, paying them a pittance and allowing the undercutting of good wages. If they think it will stop by making the current crop of illegals, legal, think again. The businesses will just hire a new round of illegals. All off those wages and benefits accumulated through years of collective bargining, gone in a poof of smoke.
Also, meatpacking, etc. used to be well paid union work until the jobs were undercut by illegal aliens.

CD, you mean broken country because you saw protesters, in France ? C'mon man, you cannot be such a sissy... I better understand why you're whining about your illegal migrants... Have you always crack so easily under pressure ? So, France is a broken country and Irak is a recovering one, uh ? I really should try your neocon-vision googles...

Oh, by the way, i support your president in his migrant policy. And it's the second time (after the case of the Havens ruled by Dubai). That scared me a little... wasn't there chemical plants in irak with tons of WMD ready to lauch over Israel ?

Just Kidding !!

I think we ought to set up a new email service for liberals and disenchanted people. Hatemail.com. Scott@hatemail.com. GOCTroll@hatemail.com. That seems to be the best you people can do is spew hate. The volume and deprecatory nature of comments that Republicans had for Bill Clinton will never match what you libs have for Bush. Hardly any Republicans dissented when you fought your feel-good war either. You remember-Air War Over Kosovo. And this war is truly about American security, something you people seem to have forgotten completely about. You have no plan, and yet the volume of your protests is never below that of a shreik.

This entire illegal (please note and understand the significance of that word please) immigration issue cracks me up. We only have ourselves to blame. The problem is not that the illegal (there's that word again) workers will do work others won't. That is the biggest crock of bullshit being perpetuated on Americans. The problem is the fucking welfare state we are becoming. If we can just shut down welfare, trust me, those leeches would be out working for the same amount of money as the illegals (there's that word again). Granted the quality of that work might not be as good as the illegals (again), but with practice comes perfection. The other problem is our sorry state of wanting stuff cheap, cheap cheap. Well you get what you pay for. White trash America wants to go into Walmart and not pay more than $8 for a dress shirt, but then bitch because the only way they can sell them that cheap is to hire illegals (yet again)to mfg, ship, and stock the product. We have to stop the illegal influx or we'll look like France pretty soon, just a different demographic of the aliens. Once we stop this nonsense, the average Joe better be ready to pay more for his produce, house, lawn care etc. It's the laws of economics and that's the world we live in today. I for one think the wet backs did themselves in with these shenanigans. Most of the intelligent US citizens are aware that these people have NO RIGHTS under our constitution. Why? All together now...........because they are illegal.

No Prosper, CD didn't say France was broken because of a couple hundred thousand animals (Muslims) and/or welfare state recipients (protesting workers) have been rioting for the past several months. He meant it was broken because your government passed a law. As common sense dictates, this law was good and needed (though still way TOO soft on the socialist workers of your country). People protest, and the law is now no longer. Wow, it's so good to see the dumb ass lazy population of your country gets to tell the goverment which laws it will and will not abide by. Please. France has been broken since WWII. Their just too naive to realize it.

Senor Grouchy,

I think it's time the Republican party grabbed itself by the cajones and perhaps tried to enforce the laws we already have on the books. It seems the Republicans have softened since they gained power and the very conservative beliefs and morals that got them elected are being dumped by the wayside.

By the way, where are the labor unions crying to the media in all of this? And why aren't "Legals" outraged?

There is enough 30-second hate speech out there already, and while the libs (Incl the media and hollyweird) seem to be able to think up slanderous insults, where are there ideas? It seems to me that the word "Illegal" is the operative one here and dimocrats, closet libs like certain Republican senators and conservatives ought to all agree on the rule of law..

We're an old democracy Ray, and our politics listen carefully the street the year before our presidential election. I saw signs of your mexican protesters 'Now we march, then we vote'. We'll see if the american political behaviour is so different than the french one. But i agree with you that this french law was good and needed. It just could'nt resist 60% of opponents and 3 millions protesters... And i will have to wait a little bit more before my first debate here without a WWII reference...

"By the way, where are the labor unions crying to the media in all of this? "
Well, John Sweeney, the head of the AFL-CIO was out there with Ted Kennedy(who was reading in Spanish from a cue card with a horrific accent)supporting giving illegal aliens the sky and the moon. I wonder what the rank and file feel about that?

I think we should get more politicians to do the work that ours won't do.

Charlie sent me a couple of e-mails and I responded, and I thought for shits and giggles I'd share a little of Charlie's comments and my responses.

>Do you hate America that much?

No, I don't hate America. I just have a different vision of America than you do. I have a more tolerant and inclusive vision of America which allows more immigration, particularly from those people who serve as a crucial part of our workforce.

>Do your tax dollars mean nothing to you? Do you enjoy bending over for those who exploit our 'social services'?

The simple fact of the matter is that illegal aliens as a whole give more to this country's economy than they take from it. While they receive services and benefits, they also contribute to the economy. The country would be worse off economically if they were all deported. That kind of reality is actually important to me. And it should be to you too.

>What part of that word [illegal] don't you understand, Scott? Don't let your emotions get the better of you! This is a debate about ILLEGAL immigrants, not the LEGAL ones!

Yes, they are illegal immigrants because we passed laws which said that their immigration was illegal. We can just as easily pass laws saying that people who entered the country as they did now can get into a process of becoming naturalized citizens. The question is whether we should change the law. The vast majority of these people are hard workers who contribute a great deal to our economy. We would be well served to help the peaceful, non-violent ones become naturalized citizens.

>I know it's all racism to you, but if you put the reefer down, you might understand that there are a few of us who still love this country and what it stands for.

Some of the things this country stands for are freedom and opportunity. This country has long stood for the principle that if you want to be free, you can come here, work hard and make your own way. These aliens are doing just that. We should give them the opportunity to become naturalized citizens, as the Senate bill proposed before Republicans killed it.

Since it is now apparently okay for 11,000,000 illegal mexicans be forgiven for having violated the federal immigration laws & recieve amnesty, I have a request of my own. It seems my business was more profitable last year then in previous years, my accountant informed me that I owe the IRS more money,,would it be possible to not pay this additional tax, be forgiven & recieve amnesty......after all it is only a federal law that I would be violating just like the mexicans....no big deal right?" -Would you like to bet as to just how soon the Federal government would swoop down on me a native born working & to this point honest citizen if this action was taken by me? They can`t find 11,000,000 illegal mexican`s, but I`ll bet the farm finding me would be a high priority on their todo list.

Excuse me, Senor's & Senorita's. Since these protest were all "Organized", did it occur to anyone to "Round them up" while they (Illegal's) were all together protesting? What's this crap of only having a fence at 700 out of the 2,000 miles that borders the USA and May-he-third world co?

Dudley, the problem is that 11,000,000 illegal immigrants contribute more to the economy than you and your little business. Conservatives should at least recognize that the bottom line is the bottom line.

Right on, Denny.

CharlieDelta, stop wasting your time with these liberals like Scott. You can't debate the ignorant. They will never educate themselves, and we will never dumb ourselves down to their level. So, there's no reason to debate any longer. They have deeply divided this country. Why the Republicans cannot see the left's tactics on the immigration issue is so beyond me that I am totally 100% disgusted with that Party. Bottom line is, this country is headed for some very dangerous times. The hatred between Conservatives and Liberals only grows. One spark, and this country will sink into Civil War; we all know this. I know which team I'm on. I know what team Scott plays for, and he's wearing their jersey. Guess what logo is on that jersey...that's right, the hammer and sickle.

You people who think that the immigration protests are about immigration, you are dead wrong. The groups organizing these protests are the hate America, blame America, anti-war, Communist, far-left groups latching onto an issue they hope will advance their agenda. These people are very dangerous, and Scott is one of them.

Let's put in turn-styles, they can pay to come in and/or pay a fee to stay. Pay or become a citizen!And no voting rights for them, unless they can prove their citizenship. :)

The hatred between Conservatives and Liberals only grows. One spark, and this country will sink into Civil War; we all know this. I know which team I'm on. I know what team Scott plays for, and he's wearing their jersey. Guess what logo is on that jersey...that's right, the hammer and sickle.

This is the kind of stuff that makes it hard for me to take this blog and its comments seriously. I'm sure that some of you are reasonable, but many are not. The above quote is ludicrous. I am definitely a liberal, but I am reasonable that I understand that Republicans and conservatives aren't fascists. Also, Republicans and conservatives want good things for America. For instance, I don't like GWB and voted against him twice. But I know that he loves America and all of his actions have been motivated by doing what he thinks is best for this country. I just don't agree that his actions have actually been good for America.

Similarly, liberals aren't Socialists or Communists. We aren't. Trust me. I've been to the meetings. We also don't hate America. We don't want America to lose wars. We don't want the country to be hurt. Both conservatives and liberals love America. At times both groups dislike certain actions of the government and its elected officials. But disliking a governmental action is not hating the country. Dissent is ok...on both sides.

So it seems patently silly for someone to say that this country is devolving towads civil war and that liberals/Democrats are actually Socialists/Communists. It is that kind of wild and crazy rhetoric which has "deeply divided this country."

Paul is 100% correct! I bet George Soros is in this mix somewhere. Where in the hell is Jesse and Al? No money in it for them.

Scott,

Liberal Point #1
Tax the rich, and give to the poor. In Marxist terms, it means to each according to his needs and from each according to his means.

In no point in the history of civilization has any nation survived by taking money from one group of people and giving it to another. Socialism is doomed, pal. Just look at France.

Liberal Point #2
Ban guns. Liberals want to repeal the 2nd Amendment of the United States Constitution. You know that one, Scott.

Liberal Point #3
Legalize gay marriage. Marriage is the union between a man and a woman. The institution has existed for thousands of years. Why is it all of sudden wrong? While not perfect, and there are too many divorces, it is the only institution that fosters child rearing. The government has a vested interest in marriage. Why? Because the children are future tax payers and voters. Gay marriage breaks down a solid social structure that is not meant to be redefined. Think I'm wrong, then why does over 80% of the country oppose it?

How far do you want me to go, Scott? How liberal are you? All you do here at GOC is spew over how the Republicans are going to lose power, yet you don't talk the issues. If you don't take this blog seriously, then you can always hit the little arrow button at the top of your screen.

All you people have done over the course of 40 years is break down the social structure of this country. You attack marriage. You attack the rich. You indoctrinate captive audiences in schools and universities with your ideals. You are anti-war and failed to catch Bin Laden during the 1990s when Sudan had him in custody. You call Republicans a bunch of racists when all the KKK guys are actually in the Democrat Party. In fact, most of the Democrats voted against the Civil Rights Act of 1964. You want the United Nations to control our foreign policy, undermining our soverignty. You believe in international law over US law. When you lose at the ballot box, you take it to court like you did with Roe vs. Wade. You attacked the 5th Amendment with the Kelo vs. New London Connecticut decision. These are liberal platforms, Scott!!!!! And you wonder why we Conservatives call you a bunch of fucking Communists? Wake up, man.

Prosper - Here's the difference. Our protesters were peaceful. No cars were burned. No stores were broken into. As far as I can tell, there was no violence. Our Mexicans want to work.

To all - Let's tone down the insults. Scott, altho' liberal, is playing by the rules. I think he is wrong, of course, because most of his policies have been discredited. The most notable being the War on Poverty which has created a multigeneration underclass dependent on gummint. We saw the results of that in Nawlins. To be fair, both parties' insane War on Drugs has been a failure also. I also think his party is full of unAmerican douchebags. It has always been an unwritten policy of this country that politics stopped at the water's edge. Now we have people like Jimmah Carter, Bill Clinton, and Algore running overseas and trashing our country's policies because of their hatred of Bush and the Republicans. This is unprecedented and a disgrace.

Scott - Since you keep saying over and over again that these 11,000,000 illegals (and when have Dimocrats had any propblems with illegals since they revere a murderer and a rapist) provide more to our economy than they take away (which I do not believe), why don't we just throw our borders open to everyone? Why don't we take in 50 million Mexicans?

I think that we may need to revisit NAFTA and make some revisions to it. I also think that we need to look at the U.S and Canadian agricultural subsidies in comparison to Mexico. These subsidies essentially sjut Third World farmers out of First World markets. The so-called free trade has failed to generate enough American and foriegn investments in small to medium sized businesses to create enough new "Mexican" jobs. We also have to look at the fact that when new jobs are indeed created in Mexico that their political leaders are unable to ensure an economy that can match hour by hour rates that can be found in the U.S.

I doubt that many people in the Bush Administration, or in Canada ( I forget the name of the Prime Minister) will want to take another look at subsidies. This issue, while it seems to have polarizing effects in this country along ideological lines is really all about money.

I consider myself liberal in a lot of ways, but I do not like these protests at all. Despite the Democratic politicians that have made hood ornaments of themselves at the protests, I don't think that this is necessarily a liberal Democrat cause.

"I don't think that this is necessarily a liberal Democrat cause."

It astounds me how any liberal Democrat could support illegal immigration at all. Illegal Immigration depresses wages and hurts poor American citizens the most. Employers can hire illegal immigrants to get around paying minimum wages and workplace safety requirements. All of the regulations that liberals are so fond of are ignored by illegal aliens and the people that hire them.

Acts of War
Mexico has published "invasion maps" so that Mexicans can cross the border, with knowledge of how to avoid detection and find water and supplies on the way north.

Mexicans in the USA are sending cash back to Mexico, in violation of money transfer laws.

Perhaps Congress should declare war on Mexico in self-defense of the border. 10 years ago Pershing went 1,000 miles south, maybe we should do it again.

Racist Invasion;

Before demanding action from Congress, every American Citizen needs to read a couple of articles. The first is a March 29, 2006 article by Ben Johnson; “Who’s Behind the Immigration Rallies?” http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=21841. The second is an April 7, 2006 article by Rep. Charlie Norwood; “The Truth about `La Raza” http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=13863. I believe most U.S. Patriots will agree that America is being sold down the tubes.

over 50,000 people protesting

Seems like alot of people not at their jobs...

If I had employees who failed to come to work to protest, they would be fired!

Denny,

You're god damn right! Excellent post.

Scott - Since you keep saying over and over again that these 11,000,000 illegals (and when have Dimocrats had any propblems with illegals since they revere a murderer and a rapist) provide more to our economy than they take away (which I do not believe), why don't we just throw our borders open to everyone? Why don't we take in 50 million Mexicans?

I'm not in favor of unrestricted immigration. In general, I would be in favor of the path to legal citizenship in the Senate bill, with bulked up border security provisions. However, I think we need to look at the current legal immigration quotas and make that they are consistent with the needs of our labor market.

Hell, Yes!, the illegals bring in revenue. With all their Court fines! They are like Meth dealers central here in the Midwest. Note to Vicki: The local packing plants here in the Heartland let ALL their packing plant workers off for the day, so the illegals could have their silly little march. So the ones who Didn't march , missed a day of pay and Now have to work on Saturday. Oh yeah, People are pissed off beyond belief here.

"However, I think we need to look at the current legal immigration quotas and make that they are consistent with the needs of our labor market."

Make sure that they are with the needs of our labor market? Are you friggin' kidding me? With a current 4.70% unemployment rate, your suggestion is nothing short of laughable.

Illegal immigrants undermine our labor market by artificially depressing wages. You liberals preach for a higher minimum wage, yet you support amnesty for illegals. So, when they become legal, their wages will automatically increase to the minimum wage? You people think its actually going to work like that?

I'm stunned and, furthermore, Scott did you know that the current Senate bill grants amnesty to those ordered out of the country by the court due to a committed crime? Yes, those who defied the court order and are still here? Do you support that provision?

This problem will fix itself in another two decades. If the cycle of illeagl immigration and amnesty this county will be over 50 percent hispanic. At that point no anglo will have a chance of election regardless of party.

Both political parties seem detrmined to latinize the nation. One for cheap labor and the other for cheap votes. Very soon, I fear, this will be a semi-litreate, Spanish speaking nation of peasants and Oligarcs. More have nots and a very few haves, just like the rest of Latin America.

If you want a real nightmare just think of an American Hugo Chaves with Nuclear Weapons.

The older I get the more I think my late father was correct when he said that this nation is going to Hell in a hand basket.

Roger, I like to say going to Hell in a knock-off Gucci bag.

Teresa, nice to see you chiming in here! I wrote to the local media outlets and asked that if they insist upon referring to Illegal Aliens as 'Undocumented workers' then from here on out they will need to refer to drug dealers as 'Undocumented Pharmacists'. We wouldn't want to step on anyones self esteem or pick on them for making a buck or feeding their family now would we? Perish the thought!

CharlieDelta, This is Scott! He is a Dick!
I've searched the web far and wide for that clip from South Park...to no avail...argh.

"refer to drug dealers as 'Undocumented Pharmacists'"

;-)))

Scott, You state that 11,000,000 illegals contribute more then I & my business to the economy...... on the face of it , most assuredly true, however you will never know just how much as while I operate openly in accordance with the law of the land, none of the 11,000,000 illegals do. Again on the face of it, the truth is that these 11,000,000 illegals are not contributing their fair share to the economy as to do so would expose them to US immigration & subsequent deportation. You further state agreement with & support for legal immigration to this country, but somehow find it okay to grant amnesty to 11,000,000 illegals who snuck into this country & do not participate in the full range of responsibility required in a free society. I can sympathize with the plight of mexicans in their homeland , I also support the idea of & encourage legal immigration to this country as of ultimate benefit for the United States, all I ask for & expect is that this take place in a manner compliant with the laws governing the process. As to how you & the rest of the "I feel their pain crowd" find this to be racist & insulting to the mexican people is beyond comprehension. If you want to read that which is racist & insulting ,check out the mexican immigration code as it pertains to any American`s who would immigrate to Mexico with the clearly racist limitations to jobs, land ownership, voting , free speech & advancement within the social system. Then & only then come back to me & explain your stance on our American policy. Incidently the Company I was employed with for 20 years prior to being forced out of for being over 55 with 10 years of service has now joined the grand experiment of NAFTA & announced a relocation to the Mexican city of Monterrey, this will provide for the immediate loss of 500 American jobs with the professional management positions of Corporate, finance , purchasing & engineering to follow. The current administation for this company state the expected $20,000,000 in saving`s justify the move even though the company is currently profitable. They expect to recover the cost`s associated with this move in 2 1/2 years, quite ambitious considering when the company opened a plant in Alabama it took 15 years to make the first dollar of profit. The mexican mystic has dulled common sense, when they relocate back to the United States as most companies ultimately do they will have a ready made work force to bring with them , at least they won`t be illegal.I find your position to be illogical & suggest you get your head out of the nether region associated with the seat of your pants.

Similarly, liberals aren't Socialists or Communists. We aren't. Trust me. I've been to the meetings. We also don't hate America. We don't want America to lose wars. We don't want the country to be hurt. Both conservatives and liberals love America. At times both groups dislike certain actions of the government and its elected officials. But disliking a governmental action is not hating the country. Dissent is ok...on both sides.

Go Scott!

The local packing plants here in the Heartland let ALL their packing plant workers off for the day, so the illegals could have their silly little march.

Teresa...the packing plants and other businesses who hire illegals should be held accountable, as should the immigrants coming across the border. Makes me sick. I won't hire any business that employs Mexican immigrants... yes, I'm a racist!

Local people around here refer to the Mexicans as "4 footers"...

To,"The other Rachel", "Liberal`s are not Socialists or Communist`s', maybe not, but for the most part they spout the same social agenda & support the same goals.I cannot support any political group or adherant thereof which advocates & supports positions at odds with what this county was founded on & stands for. You are allowed by the constitution of this country to dis-agree or dissent, action`s which would not be permitted under regimes of the socialist, communist or extreme liberal belief you apparently support. Concerning this particular post of Denny`s , it is most ironic that for all the media play, political support,welfare funding & grandstanding by the NAACP & BRBPP`S, the racial minority obviously destined to achieve political parity in the United States is not the Afro-American`s but the Latino`s who have chosen an approach unheard of by the Afro-American`s......'A Work Ethic" What will the Rev`n Jackson & Honest Al Sharpton do when congress is pressured to make Cinco Demayo a holiday in place of Martin Luther King Day, while this is a pun, would anybody care in Mexifornia?

the other Rachel - Then how come they've wanted us to lose every war since WWII?

Again on the face of it, the truth is that these 11,000,000 illegals are not contributing their fair share to the economy as to do so would expose them to US immigration & subsequent deportation.

Then let us remove the impediment to them contributing their fair share. You have lauded their work ethic, and justifiably so. They will keep working hard after becoming naturalized citizens, and then their contribution to our economy will only increase.

You further state agreement with & support for legal immigration to this country, but somehow find it okay to grant amnesty to 11,000,000 illegals who snuck into this country & do not participate in the full range of responsibility required in a free society.

I support a path to legal citizenship for these immigrants because it is what is best for America. And, as you said, the thing that keeps them from "participating in the full range of responsibilities required in a free society" is their illegal status. I support reforms which would allow them to overcome that impediment and fully contribute to this society.

I can sympathize with the plight of mexicans in their homeland , I also support the idea of & encourage legal immigration to this country as of ultimate benefit for the United States, all I ask for & expect is that this take place in a manner compliant with the laws governing the process.

That is why the laws need to be changed to allow them to become naturalized citizens. Their presence is good for this country because they are an extremely valuable part of the workforce. If they are good for the country, then why shouldn't we help them to become naturalized citizens?

As to how you & the rest of the "I feel their pain crowd" find this to be racist & insulting to the mexican people is beyond comprehension.

I don't find hard line policy positions against illegal immigration to be racist per se. What I do find racist is hatred for these people based on the simple fact that they have committed a misdemeanor. On this blog and elsewhere, I have read numerous fantasies about brutalizing and killing these misdameanants. I wonder why there isn't such hatred for others who commit misdameanors. Maybe it is because what is really going on here for many people is that they hate the thought of more brown people with accents "invading" their country.

If you want to read that which is racist & insulting ,check out the mexican immigration code as it pertains to any American`s who would immigrate to Mexico with the clearly racist limitations to jobs, land ownership, voting , free speech & advancement within the social system. Then & only then come back to me & explain your stance on our American policy.

This comment was particularly perplexing. Mexican immigration laws are horribly restrictive and discriminatory. So what? I hear Albania has some harsh laws too. That doesn't make American law any more or less acceptable.

To,"The other Rachel", "Liberal`s are not Socialists or Communist`s', maybe not, but for the most part they spout the same social agenda & support the same goals.

Do you think that the liberal agenda and goals are:

- Public ownership of ALL of the means of production
- Governmental distrubition of ALL wealth
- The elimination of ALL private property

THAT is Socialism. If you really think that is what liberals in this country want, then you aren't just conservative, you're a complete whack job who isn't interested in or capable of rational debate.

You are allowed by the constitution of this country to dis-agree or dissent, action`s which would not be permitted under regimes of the socialist, communist or extreme liberal belief you apparently support.

The more lefty liberals like me would like for the USA to have social programs more like the U.K., Scandinavia and quite frankly most of Western Europe. Is that Socialism? Not even close. Are they allowed to disagree or dissent? You bet. Do they have as great a degree of freedom of speech as the USA. Hell yes.

it is most ironic that for all the media play, political support,welfare funding & grandstanding by the NAACP & BRBPP`S, the racial minority obviously destined to achieve political parity in the United States is not the Afro-American`s but the Latino`s who have chosen an approach unheard of by the Afro-American`s......'A Work Ethic"

Do you think for a second that Latinos have significant and growing political power because of their work ethic? Good lord. It is all numbers. The largest minority in this country is Latinos. They passed African Americans earlier this decade. And their population is increasing at a rate considerably higher than both whites and African Americans. Their power comes from demographics, not work ethic.

Why don't we refer to the Protesters as "Undocumented Demonstrators". And Liberals like the big media & "The other Rachel" should be refered to as "Undocumented Communist".

"The more lefty liberals like me would like for the USA to have social programs more like the U.K., Scandinavia and quite frankly most of Western Europe. Is that Socialism? Not even close. Are they allowed to disagree or dissent? You bet. Do they have as great a degree of freedom of speech as the USA. Hell yes."

Well, then move to Europe, Scott. These top down Socialist type(even if you don't want to admit it) programs are antithetical to every principle this country was founded on. I lived in Europe for 2 years and let me tell you, their socialist programs suck. People have to wait for months for surgery, where here you get treated almost immediately. They have freedom of speech, unless someone says a word or phrase that they deem hate speech, then you are brought up on criminal charges and sometimes thrown in jail. This has happened in the UK. The UK is a virtual police state with cameras everywhere and the police politicized. They are soon going to require that people have to get and carry a biometric ID card. Papieren bitte, anyone.

Also, you are a big supporter of citizenship for illegal aliens, right? Well in Germany, invited workers(Gastarbeiter) are disallowed citizenship by law. Their children and decendants are as well. So they have a large population of legal immigrants and their children who are not and will never become citizens of Germany. Still want to emulate Europe, Scott?

Scott - The left wing of the Dimocrat Party does advocate socialism:

- Public ownership of ALL of the means of production
Socialized medicine is just the first step. Increasing gummint regulation of industry is creeping toward eventual gummint control.
- Governmental distribution of ALL wealth
Yep. Take from "the rich" and give to "the poor" That is the Dimocrat Party.
- The elimination of ALL private property
The recent Kelso decision, which is most definitely against the Constitution is also a start.

So yeah. I'd say the Dimocrats are socialists. Actually, socialism has been redefined to describe economies such as Sweden, France, and Germany. That's what the Dimocrat Party wants for us. We currently have an unemployment rate half of France and Germany and a growth rate twice theirs. I'll take American capitalism. And as for your concern for the poor, did you know that people in red states give more to charity than people in blue states? Probably because our taxes are lower so we have more discretionary income to give to charity. Or maybe we're just nicer folks.

As to amnesty. We tried that in 1986. That was supposed to solve the problem. It didn't. It just encouraged more illegal immigrants to enter the country. An amnesty this time will have the same results.

Secure the borders first. Round up illegals and send them back to Mexico. Then institute a guest worker program with a path toward citizenship.

Exactly what part of illegal do you not understand?

Thanks for responding "Scott", I won`t respond to your european wish list as Yosemite Sam has done so quite well. While the numbers game for latinos is in play, also is their considerable work ethic, one strangely absent in a large portion of the Afro-American welfare dominated leisure class. As to granting amnesty to those illegals currently in country, I think about all the mexican national`s attempting to enter legally who have been waiting for a protracted time frame. What about them? Just let them come also?? Actually I believe those who first thought of compling with US immigration laws are more likely to be good citizens then those who chose to ignore them. Damn!! there is that illegal unlawful point of view again. I suspect that the ultimate solution will be a political rather than constitutional one. You, the mexican illegals , the dimocratic party & Vincente Fox will be happy. Honest hardworking American citizen`s & the forgotten class of potential immigrants will not. The real reason for the current ferment is the behind the scene actions of George Soros & the leftest liberal`s bankrolling the ongoing effort to dis-credit President Bush. Truth is always a casualty when politicians pontificate, do not lose sight of that fact even if it is distasteful to your core belief......Once again ,how about amnesty/tax forgiveness for me just one time, I`ll even give a ride to the illegal of Denny`s choice in my new truck purchased with the money saved via the desired tax amnesty......"as long as she is featured in saturday boobage & approved by denny`s core constituant readers"

Scott - The left wing of the Dimocrat Party does advocate socialism:

- Public ownership of ALL of the means of production
Socialized medicine is just the first step. Increasing gummint regulation of industry is creeping toward eventual gummint control.
- Governmental distribution of ALL wealth
Yep. Take from "the rich" and give to "the poor" That is the Dimocrat Party.
- The elimination of ALL private property
The recent Kelso decision, which is most definitely against the Constitution is also a start.

Denny, I'm disappointed to read this because it means you're just another far right-wing kook. Democrats don't want all industry to be government controlled. Where is the logic that supports the assertion that because Democrats want some regulation, therefore they really want government control of everything? Democrats don't want to distribute all or even most of the wealth. Just a relatively small percentage of it (as they do in western Europe). Again, your "logic" says that if Democrats want to tax the rich at all and give some of that to the poor, what they really want is complete levelling and redistribution of everything. Democrats don't want to eliminate private property. One court decision leads you to conclude that Democrats want to do away with all private property. Simply insane. Why is it not enough that you just disagree with Democrats liberals? You can't disagree without the other side being the most extreme far-left Socialists/Communists? Denny, it's sad that you're just another nut.

Actually, socialism has been redefined to describe economies such as Sweden, France, and Germany.

Hilarious Denny. Redefined by whom? Some right-wingers like you? I have two degrees in political science. I know the definitions of Socialism and Communism. And western Europe doesn't come close. Basically for you if a country has one more social program than you think they should, they are Socialist...and will undoubtedly become a totalitarian state any day now.

Exactly what part of illegal do you not understand?

Leave it to a right-wing conservative to reduce complicated issues to a sound-bite slogan. What part of "change the law" do you not understand?

Thanks for responding "Scott", I won`t respond to your european wish list as Yosemite Sam has done so quite well.

Yeah, the same old conservative talking points. Socialized medicine horror stories that are the exception rather than the rule. But they are easier to repeat than actually looking into the facts.

While the numbers game for latinos is in play, also is their considerable work ethic, one strangely absent in a large portion of the Afro-American welfare dominated leisure class.

They are a political force because of their work ethic? Bullshit. They are a political force because there are a lot of them. Whether they had a great work ethic or none at all, they would be a big political force because #'s = votes.

The real reason for the current ferment is the behind the scene actions of George Soros & the leftest liberal`s bankrolling the ongoing effort to dis-credit President Bush.

I love this! It's a vast left-wing conspiracy. It is a left-wing cabal which has discredited Bush, not a mounting death toll and civil war in Iraq, not a failed (non-) response to Katrina, not the administration's continued arrogance and incompetence.

I had better get AOTW because if a crazed right-wingnut like Denny doesn't think I'm an asshole, then I'm doing something wrong.

Scott wrote

"Leave it to a right-wing conservative to reduce complicated issues to a sound-bite slogan."

Then he wrote

..."not a mounting death toll and civil war in Iraq, not a failed (non-) response to Katrina, not the administration's continued arrogance and incompetence."

Hypocracy at it's finest! Good liberal. Lemme get you a Scoobie Snack.

"Yeah, the same old conservative talking points. Socialized medicine horror stories that are the exception rather than the rule. But they are easier to repeat than actually looking into the facts."

Ok Scott, iterate the facts. I have lived there(Europe), I have seen it. I don't want it here. Have you lived there? People have to wait extended periods to get operations. This isn't some "horror story" or right wing fever rant, this is a fact. Everything I mentioned is a fact. The fact that you don't want to deal with it is your problem. I don't want this country to become more like Europe. We have been trying for the last 200+ years to be less like Europe. That's a trend that should continue.

Hypocracy at it's finest! Good liberal. Lemme get you a Scoobie Snack.

Michael, since you apparently didn't get it, let me break it down for you. Bush hasn't been discredited by some left-wing conspiracy, he has been discredited by a series of failures. I didn't give some sound-bite slogan; I listed some of his failures and some of the criticisms he has received from both the left and right. Get it now? You're welcome.

Ok Scott, iterate the facts. I have lived there(Europe), I have seen it. I don't want it here. Have you lived there? People have to wait extended periods to get operations. This isn't some "horror story" or right wing fever rant, this is a fact. Everything I mentioned is a fact.

People get operations when they need them. If you need an operation immediately, you get it. If you can wait, you'll probably wait. I have an aunt in Scotland who had a mild miocardial infarction (heart attack). She was immediately catheterized and they quickly found out that she had one coronary artery that was 90% closed off and another that was 70% closed off. The next day she had a double bypass. That is less of a wait than my father had before they gave him his bypass.

I don't want this country to become more like Europe. We have been trying for the last 200+ years to be less like Europe. That's a trend that should continue.

The poor get poorer and the rich get richer. More and more poor people, working class people and middle class people don't have health insurance. That is the US being less like Europe. Do you love those trends?

Scott,
You admonish dudley1 for using "the same old conservative talking points" and then follow it up with "a mounting death toll and civil war in Iraq" and "a failed (non-) response to Katrina". Where does that leave you but spewing the "same old liberal" talking points?

It's a bit off topic, but I am curious, do you find the Mayor of New Orleans and the Governor of LA culpable at all?

You admonish dudley1 for using "the same old conservative talking points" and then follow it up with "a mounting death toll and civil war in Iraq" and "a failed (non-) response to Katrina". Where does that leave you but spewing the "same old liberal" talking points?

Dudley made the odd argument that Bush has been discredited by some kind of left-wing cabal. I made the very reasonable, common sense counterargument that it was major failures of his administration that have discredited Bush. Everyone knows that the fact that the Iraq war is dragging on with mounting US death tolls have hurt the president's public opinion. Polls show this quite clearly. Similarly the administration's admittedly poor response to hurricane Katrina has hurt his image as well. These are very obvious points which about 95% of the country would agree with. Does that make them merely talking points?

It's a bit off topic, but I am curious, do you find the Mayor of New Orleans and the Governor of LA culpable at all?

Yes, I do. They made important errors as well. But here's the reason I and most of America put more blame on the Bush administration:

- No state or locality can bear the brunt of dealing with a catastrophe of this size. A near direct hit to a major city that lies mostly below sea level from a category 5 hurricane? Neither New Orleans nor Louisiana have anywhere near the resources to deal with even half of the rescue issues, refugee issues or rebuilding issues. THAT makes it mostly a federal responsibility. THAT is what FEMA is there for.

- The failures of Bush's FEMA and DHS were not just about mistakes. It wasn't like they tried really hard and just failed. They were slow to respond. In the early key days, their response was insufficient. Chertoff has admitted as much (finally).

- One of the key reasons FEMA fumbled the ball was because it was headed by a man who was not at all qualified or competent to do that job. Bush appointed a buddy to do an important job and in making that appointment, Bush completely disregarded the consideration of whether he was competent to do the job. And, when faced with that incompetence on the job, instead of immediately replacing his buddy, he gave him a vote of confidence. Bush didn't recognize tha getting the job done was more important than giving his buddy a pat on the back.

- Bush completely delegated away the entire Katrina response. He was so personally removed from what was going on that he stayed on vacation during the early days of the catastrophe.

Now, are those substantive criticisms or just talking points? Please feel free to refute them, and not just dismiss them.

Scott...you might not get AOTW but you definately qualify for BOTW.

"Bore of the Week"....

...you've written far more than I want to read.

"People get operations when they need them. If you need an operation immediately, you get it."
So the state will decide when you need something. Oh, that sounds just lovely.

"The poor get poorer and the rich get richer. More and more poor people, working class people and middle class people don't have health insurance."

Now this sounds more like a bumper sticker statement than your previous utterance. It also is n't true. The poor in this country can afford cable TV and their own homes. It doesn't help that we are importing poor from other countries, but you think thats a great idea, right.

I do not disagree that the Bush administration made mistakes, but to say the Mayor and Governor "made important errors as well" and then move on is a bit of an understatement. They made catastrophic errors. The difference between a parking lot full of empty buses ten feet under water and those same buses full of people heading out of the city would have changed the outcome of the disaster entirely. Let’s at least give some discredit where it is due.

You say these major failures have hurt Bush and then reference the Iraq war saying, "Everyone knows that the fact that the Iraq war is dragging on with mounting US death tolls have hurt the president's public opinion." I don't discredit that statement, but what I am curious about is if you are calling the Iraq war a "major failure". It seems that way to me but I may be misreading you.

The people who are there have a far different story to tell. The "mounting death tolls" are incredibly low, especially for the type of operation we are involved in (notice how the MSM never seems to mention that), and those directly involved say there is no "civil war". I read the military blogs, I talk to friends who have husbands/dads/sons there, and they all say this civil war talk is bunk. They say that what we see on the nightly news is nothing like what is going on there. That is what bothers me and that's what I was referring to when I mentioned the "liberal talking points".

Graet post Vicki about not supporting the illegals. But I hate to tell you that Tyson, the largest meat supplier in the USA, was one of them who let their workers off for the march. If you bought hamburger, steak, whatever this week, you did in fact support them. This has been a problem here for decades. The INS Used to bring in a bus about twice a year to hall them off. And then Tyson would send one to Texas to pick more up. WHY CAN'T WE GET MORE BORDER PATROL?

Scott - I cannot make you AOTW because so far you have followed all the rules of this site. You have debated fairly but unfortunately you are another misguided left wing kook. Hey if you can call me a right wing loon (which I am not) I can call you a left wing kook (which you are).

I just love the left wing, liberal, socialist meme: The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Do you know why that is? It is because the rich do the things that make them get richer and the poor do the things that make them get poorer. Once again, do a search on my site for poverty and find my three simple rules to avoid poverty. It works over 90% of the time.

I grew up poor with an alcoholic father. I am now a snotty rich fuck. Do you know why? Because I refused to be poor. When I was with IBM, one of my coworkers was a black man who was the son of a Mississippi sharecropper. He succeeded. Do you know why? Because he refused to be poor. He worked his ass off. He graduated from high school and joined the military. He despised Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and the Dimocrat Party. You know why? Because they provided excuses to be poor. It was all whitey's fault. Jesus H. Christ Scott! Do you realize what your party has done to the black race? The Republicans have Colin Powell, Condi Rice, Mochael Steele, and Clarence Thomas. These are successful black people and your party calls them oreos and uncle toms. Are you proud of that?

So you have political science degrees. BFD! I have a degree in life. I have succeeded. I started off poor and am now a millionaire. The thing is, anyone can do it.

So I redefined socialism? What's the problem? You Dimocrats redefined sex during the Clinton years. Y'know. Oral sex ain't really sex. Liberals love to redefine terms. I'm just using one of your tricks.

Slap!

Teresa - Because the Dimocrats and the Republicans won't enforce our fucking laws!

What's so funny is how Scott brags about western European policies. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there like complete turmoil in France right now? Their unemployment rate is approaching 10%, and the labor force younger than 26 has something like a 75% unemployment rate. The thugs on the street forced Chirac to surrender once again, and France recently had to clean up after a nasty Muslim uprising. Germany's economy is worse. Overall tax rates in western Europe I believe exceed 50% of gross income and some countries tax close to 65% maybe higher. So, Scott thinks we're all nuts for calling him a Socialist, yet he brags about western Europe. I guess he'll have to "break that down" for us a little more. Political science major huh? I should've guessed it. This guy is probably in his early twenties. He's never had a real job, and has been brainwashed by somebody. He's probably a member of one of those pretentious, self-righteous little campus organizations. His whole blame Bush thing on Katrina gave away his ignorance.

I have good news for Scott though. Somebody once said (and I can't remember who), "If you're not a liberal in your twenties then you don't have a heart. If you're not a conservative by age thirty then you don't have a brain." Good luck to you Scott. You sound like a nice fellow but man you are one ignorant fuck. Go get a real job and start developing some common sense. Make some money. Like Denny has said over and over, most poor people are poor by choice.

What's so funny is how Scott brags about western European policies. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there like complete turmoil in France right now? Their unemployment rate is approaching 10%, and the labor force younger than 26 has something like a 75% unemployment rate. The thugs on the street forced Chirac to surrender once again, and France recently had to clean up after a nasty Muslim uprising. Germany's economy is worse.

So you condemn all of western Europe because France is having some temporary turmoil right now and one other country has economic problems. Is that the best you can do? If significant taxation and big social programs were so awful for a country, don't you think those western European countries would have imploded by now? Seems like western Europe has been doing quite well for a long time...

Overall tax rates in western Europe I believe exceed 50% of gross income and some countries tax close to 65% maybe higher.

What you don't know or won't mention is that these taxes are largely offset by things that people don't have to pay for like health insurance. AND there is virtually no poverty, AND there is virtually no homelessness, AND everyone gets the healthcare they need. Some people care about these things.

Political science major huh?

Actually (as I said), I have two political science degrees. That was more than a few years ago and now I have a good job. I have my money, but unlike a lot of people, as soon as I get my money, I haven't turned my back on the rest of my fellow men and women. I still care about people who are genuinely needy. I don't blame the poor for being poor. I don't pretend that everyone can pull themselves up by their own bootstraps. I love reading the schlock stories about how some people have succeeded after starting out in poverty, therefore everyone should be able to do it. I guess if anyone does anything, then everyone should be able to do it. Ever heard of structural impediments to mobility in socio-economic status? I didn't think so.

"AND there is virtually no poverty, AND there is virtually no homelessness, AND everyone gets the healthcare they need. Some people care about these things."

"Virtually" is a great word when it comes to "no poverty", and "no homelessness" and "everyone gets the healthcare they need".

That fantasy is cute. In a perfect world...

There's more than one problem to your "virtual" tour, Scott...

1.) It's never going to happen. If you think it will, you are higher than the Hubble.

2.) Can't we all just get along? NO! That won't happen either.

3.) Your 2, count them (two) "Political Science Degrees" really dont mean shit to me. I have 2, count them (two) Degrees in street smarts.

What's your fucking point?

At the same time, I noticed that you never answered Denny's or CAshane's questions. Hmmm...

Scott has two political science degrees......as Denny wrote BFD. I was once a middle management flunky responsible yearly for capital budgets of about 5.5 million, 3.2 million for tooling & developmental project monies of approx 2.0 million. A total of 10 to 12 million annually. I also had 4 direct reports & 21 indirect reports to supervise. I did not have two degrees but I did have the knowledge & experience to handle the job. My former company now on it`s way to Mexico attempted mightily to recruit twin degree managers with the key degree being an MBA. During my 20 year career I witnessed some 30 individuals long on education with little or no practical experience arrive to lead the company to the promised land. Only three ever lasted & that was because they had first developed considerable hands on practical experience then went back to school for the advanced academics. We became quite cynical as to the real qualifications for these anointed professionals. We felt MBA stood for "might be able" rather than Master of Business Administration". Few meet the challenge,I could relate stories in depth as to the incompentance of people long on education & short on common sense, but I think the point is made. This is where I feel Scott is missing in action , he is obviously well educated but I do not believe he has experienced life long or well enough to seperate the feel good optimism of the liberal arts educational system from the reality of the world. We who live & make decisions in the real world learned long ago that if you hope to make your dreams successful , awareness of reality is a must. He repeats almost verbatim that which is presented as reality to most students by liberal socialist professors at college`s today. I think if he were to go to the southern border areas & witness first hand the reality of that which he writes with such conviction his stance would change drastically. This might even serve to make him challenge his pre-concieved political notions memorized from the Dimocratic playbook which also are at odds with reality. Let`s all pray for him in his time of need.

With what I pay in taxes I've turned my back on the poor? Good one! You may call rags to riches stories schlocky, but they are true. People can go from rags to riches in this country. People can escape poverty by following three simple rules which I will repeat yet again in a later post. These work 90% of the time. Barring disease or some other catastrophe, there is absolutely no excuse to be poor in this country. None! But as I said earlier, you don't solve poverty by giving poor people money. You give them opportunities.

We've thrown trillions at poverty in this country and we have succeeded in creating multigenerational welfare recipients who know nothing but the dole. You must be so proud. The KKK couldn't have done a better job than the Dimocrat Party. Hey! You got Senator Kleagle. He's probably laughing his ass off in private. Our gummint schools in the inner cities are deplorable. I got an idea! Let's throw money at 'em. If that worked we'd have the best school system in the world.

Wanna solve poverty? Tell Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson to STFU and start talking about how blacks can succeed. Education is not about "acting white". And point to positive role models like Condi Rice and Colin Powell rather than calling them "house slaves". Are you proud of Dimocrats throwing Oreo cookies at Michal Steele for daring to be a Republican? I'll just bet you are.

I could go on and on, Scott, but it's no use. You wanna keep on doing what has failed for the last 40 years. I'll bet you believe that the only reason socialism has never worked anywhere it's been tried is because the right people haven't been in charge.

And it's not just France with double the unemployment and half the growth, it's also Germany and many other EU companies. They're all going down the tubes and you want to try the same shit here that is failing there.

Go here for some interesting statistics. It seems that our debt to GDP ratio is lower than France, Germany, and Canada, three countries that you want us to emulate. Their welfare state is dragging them down. Also, our deficit is dropping because of our growth. Their deficits are rising.

Do want to know which EU country is doing the best? Ireland. You know why? Because they slashed taxes and created a pro-business economy. Funny how that works.

BTW - This thread is now closed. This debate has gone on too long and as the owner of this site, I get the last word.