I think we should take over Saudi Arabia. Contrary to what everyone believes, they are not really our allies and are using said alliance to better their lot in life. It would be a great place to set up camp (aka, America in the Mid-East) as they probably have the best infrastructure of the Mooslimb nations there is. Sure, many of the camel jockeys would be pissed off at our presenced staying in that area of the world, but who give a rats ass. They are really pissed off because they have to hsre the planet with us, not because we are in any specific place on it. We could take over those cool new islands they just built (or was that the UAM-or better yet take them over as well)and have great new Holiday fun spots to visit. I'm all for having a permanent presence over there (mostly for the oil mind you), but if we are going to do it, let's do it right this time. Kill off anyone that gets in our way and first and foremost destroy ALL the mosques.

I support the Kurd plan. In fact, I figured we'll probably end up there 2 years ago. Every pundit wannabe has been comparing the current situation to Beirut (for historical similarity) or Vietnam (for political gain). Iraq is in and of itself, unique. And I believe we would have gone in sooner ('03) or later (Saddam's death/assasination)

I most always agree with the Sqid. Myself having been there in Arab land for many years believe that we will never change their religion or ideas as their whole culture is religion. Absent of a new advent of fuel, we have to put up with them for our consumption of oil. We could take over Saudi Arabia and their oil but the best of two worlds is to start a fight between Saudi Arabia and Iran. The Saudi empire can out produce Iran in oil so Iran would go broke. The Shiates in Iraq would of course support Iran and the Sunnis would support the Saudis. After a few years of a bloody mess between them, France would intervene and surrender both sides. We then would have oil from both sides as they would need the $ for re-building their country.

Well I don't have a freaking clue what to do, but I don't think sending in a few thousand more of our guys for target practice in Baghdad is the answer. I like the idea of letting them fight it out themselves and just hanging out nearby so we can go back in if we need to, in case some other maniac takes over.

What do we do? Thats the $64,000. question isn't it? I like the idea of an independant Kurdish area. It will really piss off the Turks, but they will get over it because they want into the EU.

Okay so we have solved the Kurdish problem. What about the Shi'ites? Split the Country up and sure as they herd goats you will have Iranians up to your butt in Iraq. The Revolutionary Guards are already arming, training and providing intell to the militas. Given a reason to invade, such as: Restoring order to a civil war as a local power, or "asked" into the Country by the "legitimate" goverment they will be there in a heart beat. Don't count on the Saudi's to come to the aid of their Sunni brothers either. In a war with Iran Saudi Arabi would last about 3 weeks, after that no more oil would come out of the gulf from Saudi Arabia the Iranian navy would shut down the straights. Having spent the better part of 14 years in and around that sandbox I can tell you that the Saudi's care about only one thing. Keeping the Kingdom intact.

Now personally I think we should pull out into the desert leave behind as many snipers and trained operators as we can and start sending martyrs to paradise with no warning at all. Once they've had their civil War we can go in and help rebuild or just bomb it flat and wait till they get it right .

I agree with you 100% Grouchy. I say go up north and support the Kurds. Leave the rest behind,if Saudis want to support the Sunnis and Iran support the Shiits fine with me. We all know that it will be a war by Proxy. But in the end it will just be thinning out the heard.

E5B - Here's what you're overlooking. The Shi'ites are alligned with Iran because they hate the Sunnis and Mocha-Man hates us. But the Iranians are Persians and the Iraqi Shi'ites are Arabs and they hate each other as well. If Mocha-man takes over, next thing you know he'll be fighting the Iranians.

Independant Kurds - Yes good idea
As far as the rest of Iraq I would stop pussy footing and declare marshal law. start imediately disarming the whole country , anyone who does not turn in thier weapons gets sent to meet allah ..any home found to contain a weapon gets leveled including mosque's. Do flyovers with the armed predators and helicopter gunships and if you see a weapon take it out .. Put the real fear of instant death in thier minds every minute of the day . It worked for Saddam
Then close the fucking border down with Iran and Syria give our boys orders that anything that moves in a ten mile strip on the border dies period !
Make it known that we do not torture prisoners because we dont take them - break the rules meet Allah
This would be a tough job and we'd have casualties, but we have them anyway and for what ? P.C. shit like building schools and sewers - fuck'em let them dig thier own ditches
The result would be no more militias - hear that Mooky
No more IED's from Iran - hear that Allahdingdong
One more thing Ban those frucking Burkas - no more putting bags over your women - hell it might do them good to see some leg and some cleavage , maybe they would be thinking about something besides killing each other for a while
If you need more ideas on bringing peace to the middle east I'll be here all week
My name is Darrell and I approved this message

Works for me but keep in ind that the Kurds are also Muslim..and they ain't always been the friendliest people on earth and all it would take is a wild eyed mullah to have them wanting a nuke.

"It is far better to give than to receive."

'Tis the season.

This is an excellent idea. I had always agreed with Denny's friend, as I have been a staunch supporter of playing Segregate the Assholes by partitioning Iraq into three countries. But I have to admit, deploying to Kurd Country sounds like a great idea.

We help them make their own country, and then we set up a base. It could work. We give them something they have wanted for hundreds of years, and in turn they give us space for our military, which will both protect their asses and give us a place for our soldiers to keep an eye on the shithead Arabs killing themselves to the south. And if the Arabs get out of line (i.e. try to blow up someone besides each other), we're close enough to pound the shit out of them post haste, and they know that.

Personally, I have a feeling the Kurds would welcome a US base in their land. They've been getting pissed upon by the rest of the Muslim word for centuries now; they're basically the redheaded stepchildren of the middle east (narrowly beating out the Armenians because the Kurds don't have their own country yet). I think they would love to have some solid guns on their side, and they know for a fact that we can provide that.

It has been pointed out that the Kurds are, themselves, Muslims, and as such they probably cannot be trusted. That could possibly be the truth. However, given what I've read, while the Kurds are nominally Sunni Muslims, their particular brand of worship is so infused with Judaism, Christianity, their native Yazidism, and even Zoroastrianism, that I'm not even sure it qualifies as true Islam anymore. I know that I could easily be wrong, and thus I will always be wary. All the same, they seem like they merely pay lip service to Islam, even when dealing with other Muslims. It doesn't convince me completely, but it does give me pause.

Something about the Kurds tells me that they would be all too happy to host one of our bases in their territory. It could be one of the best things that ever happened to the war.

The Squidley Plan has gained a supporter.

Denny, you could have a point. However how long do you think Mocha-man has on planet Earth once the Iranians get there? They dont mess around with this P.C bullshit that has hampered us. They will whack him and keep right on going till they find a friendly to replace him, or get their point across. Dont get me wrong I'd love to see those goat-boinking S.O.B's killing each other. I still have people over there and anything that keeps them safe I'm all for.

So turning Iraq into a stable, secular democracy hasn't worked. Who predicted that? Liberals and progressives who said we shouldn't get into the war in the first place. Glad you're finally on board. Next time, just ask us first.

What the hell were the idiot neocons thinking?

Jerry, it's unseemly to gloat while our troops are still dying there. I was predicting the military option wouldn't work since before we went into Afghanistan. I just don't believe you can bomb an ideology out of existence. But who gives a flying eff who was right or was wrong?

What's important right now is to put all our heads together and see if we can figure out a strategy to get our guys out of harm's way.

Jerry - Yeah, like I'm gonna ask a liberal about national defense. This is still a war fought with very little casualties. I do believe we should have gone into Iraq. As I've said many times, we won the war and lost the peace.

Nice, Jerry. It's really easy to gloat, isn't it?

Unfortunately for you, your gloating is grossly misplaced. I can't recall anyone giving the people in your camp this much crap when they royally screwed up Somalia. By the way: that little mishap was a major cause of 9/11. If you don't believe me, just ask Osama bin Laden, who publicly stated that the moment the US pulled out of Somalia was the moment that he knew that we were weak and could be defeated. Then, a few years later, the World Trade Center went down. If not for that, we never would have gone into Afghanistan or Iraq. So in a sense, this war was your fault anyway. Oh, but wait; I'm talking about history. You lefties have no concept of that, do you? Forgive me.

Denny: We definitely won the war. We did that in a matter of weeks. I disagree that we lost the peace. Defeat is only possible when it's over, and it ain't over yet. We've won virtually every battle over there. The fact that the news only reports the negative aspects of Iraq means nothing. You know that as well as I do, as we've both had family serving over there. A change of strategy does not amount to a concession of defeat. I still think that victory is possible, even if that victory just boils down to setting up a base with the Kurds and watching the Arabs kill each other. As far as I'm concerned, that's a victory in and of itself.

We won the war and are winning the peace. So muzzies killing muzzies is a bad thing? as long as no one else gets hurt, fine. They are killing far more of each other than they are US troops.
When all is said and done, they will still be killing each other, assuming more than one is left.

I agree with Jermy and Fhead, we have in fact actually won. We just haven't figured out an exit strategy yet that will be good for all parties that it's important for (no, not the camel jockies). Going in to Iraq and Afghanistan-good and rightous (you liberal dickwads will see this 10 years from now, but you folk have no ability to plan for the future. It's always the "right now" for you. Hence your continously losing fights for everything you try to fight). Trying to bring Democracy to a barbaric, backwards ass people, stupid. We should have killed as many of the 16 year and older males as we could, and then gotten out. Simple as that. Pull back to a close location and wait to see how they behave (you know, kind of like kids being punished-only less intelligent than the kids). If (no When) they act up again, bring fire from the sky again. Jerry, as typical liberal do, you see everything in a very distorted light. Thank God we still have sane people truly in charge of where this country is going because typical Democrat philosophy is "if it can't be done easily, quickly and cheaply we aren't doing it". Idiots. All of them plain and simple. And as was mentioned previously. As far as 99% of us "neocons" are concerned (I'm beginning to like that word, kind of like a badge of honor)we done what we set out to do in Iraq, removed a tyrant and reminded the world we can kick whoever's ass whenever we want. Unfortunately we have idiot pacifists we try to appease with this "collateral damage" don't fight the war to the fullest mentality. Fuck them. War is hell, and people die. They wouldn't have to if they caught up with the rest of the world and didn't try to cause problems.

Denny....

Here you go again , looking at the situation as it really is & suggesting the logical conclusion. However, will it meet the European litmus test? Will the Prosperites accept it? What about Kofi Annon & the UN? The Dimocrats? The LSM? Dan S & the liberal gangbangers?......Did anybody ask the Kurd`s?

Yes, I think its a great Idea, the Kurd`s will love it, the Turks will hate it (Payback time), the Sunni`s & Shi`ites won`t even notice, Europe & the Prosperites will hate it, so will Kofi, the UN, Dimocrats,LSM, Dan S & the liberal gangbangers.

Does anybody not see this is a great plan? Who cares what the liberal idiots think? A few safeguards need to be included.... First, a warning to Iran that any attempt to intervene militarily to Iraq will recieve a selective carpet bombing, Two, Tell the Sunni`s & Shi`ites that after their feud is over we will deal with the winner. Three, tell the world Kurdistan is now an independant country under our protection & keep out of their affairs.

Good of the order.....Since we have brought the Al Queda Terrorists into detention here in this Hemisphere, it is only fitting we send illegal mexicans into exile in Iraq & just turn them loose with several Mariachi bands, that alone should solve our illlegal immigration problem & unite the Iraqis bringing an end to the civil war there.

Good plan Denny,Let`s see what develops.

Good job, Denny. I agree like usual.

Three, tell the world Kurdistan is now an independant country under our protection & keep out of their affairs

BWAHAHAHAHAHA

Under your protection?

You are not even able to protect your own soldiers, and you want to protect an entire people ?

Last time you said you'll protect Kurds, you let Saddam slaughter them (and don't play the democrat card, it was a republican administration). Do you think they gonna trust you anymore?

Prosper - This from a citizen of a country that cannot even protect itself. And you're right. We did stab the Kurds and the Shi'ites in the back after GWI and it was a Republican president. So now we're trying to rectify that mistake and we have people, including you, who want us to cut and run. I've been consistent. I wanted us to take out Saddam during GWI. Stormin' Norman wanted to take out Saddam. It was Colin Powell and the State Department who didn't want to let us finish the job. So what do you suggest Prosper? Should we leave Iraq? Should we stay? Should we retreat to Kurdistan and let the Sunnis and Shi'ites kill each other? (My solution) If you're gonna criticize offer a solution to the problem. You would make a good Dimocrat. Bush bad. Bush dumb. Bush cowboy.

Prosper.the defeatist......

Like Denny said & as you pointed out, we DID abandon the Kurds. It does not matter that Colin Powell & the state department did not want to anger the United Nations by exceeding the mandate , we to our countries`s dis-credit did not do the right thing.

However ,since you correctly pointed out we should have supported & protected the Kurds...... now that would have exceeded the UN Mandate, how can you now find fault with the decision made? You are the one now whining that Bush Jr did not have UN sanction for the war in Iraq & say he is wrong....... you can`t have it both ways?

You are taking my position in we as a nation have to act in accordance to our national interest`s regardless of what the UN or any nation think`s including Europe. You are echoing my belief & it is refreshing even though you do not understand it.

Your kneejerk reaction to my original comment was for the most part correct, even though you did it by accident.

According to journalists in the area (Time, AP), Kurdistan is an actuality as far as a local nearly autonimous government, a semi-independent economy, and a real surprize - trade and business contacts with Turkey. It seems that the Turk Government feels that Kurds as friends on the border is more palatable than Iraqis as enemies. Maybe we should help.

Denny, I protested in the streets just twice in my life. First time, I was 15, it was a french traditional student strike. Second, it was to protest against your government, BEFORE you invaded Iraq. If I tell you : Don't burn Mona Lisa, if you do it anyway, and then tell me : I messed things up (like you told me I was gonna), now what's your solution ? There's nothing I can do... Same thing with Iraq... Less worst solution? Cut & Run... First, it's something familiar to you. Second, that will reinforce the belief that nobody (even you) can work efficiently on the international stage without a large consensus. Iran and Syria will gain power, but eh! you lose, you must pay the price.

Dudley, your administration came in the UN to ask support before invading Iraq. Did they (or the european government) came in the UN to ask protection for Kurd people ? But keep believing everyone is your ennemy : Muslims, the UN, Europe... You're the only good guy, surrounded by bad boys... How old are you, already ?

Prosper the parttime researcher.....

Yes we did ask the UN for help to kick Iraq out of Kuwait......But, the mandate as passed by the UN stated just that, not to unseat Saddam from power through invasion & occupation. W chose to honor that mandate,however you are right in that we should have ignored that shortsighted restriction & completed the job in the first war. Again that is my point in that the UN does not reflect the needs of my country or for that matter the civilized(western) world.

It is also true the Kurds were ignored by the world & we chose to not anger the UN or our supposed allies by observing that mandate. We instead said Saddam would not last out the year. Saddam then used those non-existant WMD`S to gas hundreds if not thousands of Kurds to death. But no big deal as the Kurds have been ignored for centuries by the countries who have swallowed what should be part of a greater Kurdistan. Europe has also ignored these people for the approximate same period as they pursued colonial & strategic ambitions. Shame on my country & the world for being so shortsighted.

As to the enemies of my country...... The islamic fundamentalists, without a doubt as they are attempting to convert the world & think if we fall the rest of the world will capitulate.....they already think Europe is in the bag & only a matter of time until they tie the strings shut. The UN , not really an enemy nor a friend either as what they do would be laughable except we pay the bill,provide the space for their activities & are expected to clean up their messes......How about Versaille`s, any office space available for the UN to occupy? Their brand of lunacy would blend in well with French political rhetoric. Europe, again not really an enemy , aloof & just very forgetful of what we gave to save their asses in WW1 &WW2, or that it was the United States who rebuild the infrastructure & industry of western europe following WW2 as well as provide protection from Soviet aggression till their collapse.

Yes it is important who our friends are... It is also important to recognize the true nature of those who should be our friends but still pursue dreams of lost empire & grandeur.

As to how old am I? Well,politically I am as old as the times require, as to being patriotic to my country, I am eternally young.......As to how many transits around the sun , I am on my 66th journey.

Prosper,reflecting on your point of view..... do you think France or yourself will be better off when you venture into your 66th year given the lack of attention to the state of the world as it really is by your country?

The importance of Turkey as a "secular" Islamic nation is vastly overrated.

The Turks massacred about 1.5 million Christian Greeks and Armenians between 1915 and 1922. However, the Turkish government denies that this ever happened.

Turkey invaded Cyprus in 1974 and has illegally occupied it since. In classic Moslem fashion, they told the infidels to get out, and gave them 24 hours to do so. Greek property became Turkish property overnight--literally. Over 5,000 innocent Greeks were killed, and the majority of the island's resources are now under Moslem control.

Turkey's "democracy" is always under the threat of overthrow by the military. No public institution is free from state and military interference. Yet at the same time, the popularity of Islamic parties is increasing, while suppression of the press continues unabated.

"Secular" Turkey today is like "secular" Iran before Ayatollah Killmany overthrew the Shah: an Islamic revolution waiting to happen.

The Turks are not our friends. They are temporarily allies at best. The EU would be smart to keep that barbaric, Islamic, non-European country out of its club. We would be smart to open our eyes to the reality of this backwards Islamic nation.

If you ever want to hear about the true worth of the Turkish government, just ask a Greek.

My wife is of Greek descent. She's a fourth generation American, and her eyes still blaze with rage whenever anything regarding the Turks is brought up. Hell, I'm pretty sure her grandmother still spits on the floor at the mere mention of the word "Turk."

Turkey has a lot of people in the world fooled. That is dangerous. Their track record has not been good over the course of history. After marrying into a Greek family, you can bet I've heard some stories. The fact that they have been relatively quiet over the past few years does not convince me that they have given up their violent ways. It will take a great deal more than that.

Squid wrote :
"Secular" Turkey today is like "secular" Iran before Ayatollah Killmany overthrew the Shah: an Islamic revolution waiting to happen.

don't forget it's currently a democracy.
The threat of overthrow by the military is a real danger, you're right, but we can hope their democracy will strengthen.

The Turks are not our friends. They are temporarily allies at best.

Friends don't exist with nations. Temporarily allies is the best you can expect.

The EU would be smart to keep that barbaric, Islamic, non-European country out of its club.

We would be smart to keep that non-European country out of our club.