Evidently, Michael Fatass challenged Fred Thompson to a debate on Cuba. Here's Fred's response.
Got it from Josh.
Posted by denny at May 16, 2007 12:09 PMDo you see the little dramatic flourishes? Turning slowly around with an unlit cigar in his mouth while he is reading some "important document." How incredibly cheesy. We need a real leader and someone who knows policy inside and out, not an actor.
For better or worse, I don't think he's going to enter the race. His cancer would make it hard for him to endure the rigors of a presidential campaign, not to mention the presidency itself. Regardless, I think most of the Republican money men have decided to go with Romney. I don't think they are going to jump to Thompson.
Posted by: Sally on May 16, 2007 02:02 PMDon't be so sure Sally. I'll bet you anything that if Fred gets in the race he will not only get the nomination but he will be our next president. I am leading the pack here on GOC for us to all be FRED HEADS. The Dims are scared to death of him because of his calm demeanor and the way he displays his Americanism. He is a winner!
Posted by: gene Hall on May 16, 2007 03:14 PMSally - Didn't we have another actor become president? Hmmmm! What was his name? Ronald Reagan. I remember how all of the elitists made fun of him and called him a cowboy. What did he do? He only won the Cold War.
Posted by: Denny on May 16, 2007 03:19 PMHey Sally, go over here and listen to his speech to the Lincoln Club. Then tell me that he is not informed on the issues. But being the big lib you are, getting informed yourself about something before spouting off at the piehole is foreign to you.
How much about policy does Obama yo mama have after a whole 2 years in the senate? Where he has done exactly jackshit.
Posted by: kerrcarto on May 16, 2007 03:38 PMAlso if you don't think Fred has support, look at the number of views at the bottom of the video! Damn near 500,00 in one day, and you know those ain't libs watching.
Posted by: kerrcarto on May 16, 2007 04:05 PMWe need a real leader and someone who knows policy inside and out, not an actor.
I'm even more hopeful now that I know Sally doesn't like him.
Sally, by the way, what's wrong with his policy descriptions? Is he wrong about Cuba, and the hospitals there? (I have Cuban relatives, and can attest to some 2ndhand knowledge of the "free" health care afforded to the citizens)
Sally? Sorry, guys, forgot and asked her a substantiative question.
Posted by: Unix-Jedi on May 16, 2007 05:09 PMI wonder how long it took the doctor's to extract Fred Thompson's foot from Michael Moore's ass?
Posted by: Rich on May 16, 2007 05:12 PMOle Fred is around 6'6" and I bet he could put a foot up michael Morons ass in a heart beat. Matter of fact as old as I am I think I could do the same. Mental institute Michael or Freds foot?
Posted by: gene Hall on May 16, 2007 05:43 PMI like him, he has a nice resume'. Sounds like Sally is about to surrender! Some things never change.
Posted by: vetfromhell on May 16, 2007 05:55 PMDespite his having voted for that blight on our Constitution known as "McCain-Feingold," I am even beginning to like him.
That said: is displaying a widescreen video clip in its proper 16:9 ratio an impossibility? Upon every web page graced by this video's presence, it appears as though Michael Moore has been sitting on Fred.
Posted by: Perpetual Student on May 16, 2007 07:07 PMI'm sorry, I don't mean to instigate crap, but Sally...some doooshbag, who couldn't keep his hose in his pants, with big hair and Don Johnson sunglasses, puffing into a saxophone on the Arsenio Hall Show a few years ago is any more qualified to be president, and less cheesy than a guy sitting in his office, chomping on a stogie, and tellin' it like it is?
Jesus, this country is so fuct the hell up if that opinion is anything close to being commonplace.
Posted by: Erica on May 16, 2007 07:51 PMWhoops! Sorry for whatever reason the link did not post. Here it is.
http://www.grassrootsvoter.com/gallery.html
Posted by: kerrcarto on May 16, 2007 09:06 PMUnix-Jedi-
I actually like the sound of crickets. It's almost like I'm camping. Please keep asking her questions to dodge.
She may go away mad, but at least she goes away...
Posted by: CharlieDelta on May 16, 2007 10:20 PMI hate to break this to you Sally but there hasnt been a candidate for pres since lincoln that wasnt playing for the cameras , its what they do. Its how they get thier message out . Its just that some are good at it and some suck . Look at the video of Yomammas fundraiser last week . There are several people asleep for gods sake . Then watch Hillary screeeeeeeeeeeeech when she gets fired up its like fingernails on a chalkboard. I'm sure she could pull the country together . Check out Mr Slip and fall Edwards and look close at the makeup and the pretty hair is he playing for the cameras or is he just gay and vain . A man who can articulte his message with calm and strength and who can give his audience a sense that he is wise and in control can move a lot of hearts and minds to his side of the issues . I think if he runs he will have a whole bunch of Reagan dems jumping on the bandwagon . People know a winner when they see one and Fred "acting or not" will be a tough act to follow, I dont think Shillary or Osama Yomama or Maclame have got the talent
Posted by: Darrell G on May 16, 2007 11:16 PMSally, by the way, what's wrong with his policy descriptions?
My problem with Thompson is that he's very long on style and short on substance. He's not a big policy guy. He's not an expert on anything. What policy areas does he know a lot about? None. He's another president who would be run by his advisors. Don't let his "presence" fool you. When he doesn't know the policy, he's just going to listen to his people and do what they say. That's not leadership.
Is he wrong about Cuba, and the hospitals there? (I have Cuban relatives, and can attest to some 2ndhand knowledge of the "free" health care afforded to the citizens)
Actually, he didn't say much about U.S. policy with regard to Cuba. Mostly what he did was take a shot at Moore to give right-wingers a chubby. I'd like to hear an intelligent policy discussion from Thompson for once. Serious Democratic presidential candidates don't waste their time responding to hacks like Ann Coulter; Thompson shouldn't waste his time on Moore. I'd take Thompson more seriously if he showed some substance.
By the way guys, I'm not going to live on this site. I come here every now and then and post my comments. I've gotten into some protracted debates, but that is going to be the exception. If you guys want to post for hours on this site, then more power to you. So, I'm not going to always come back and read all of your responses and respond to all of them and answer all of your questions. Sorry, I'm just not going to make that investment. This site isn't a big part of my life and it never will be. Sorry. If you find this unacceptable or if this pisses you off, then feel free to ignore my posts. And, have a nice day.
Posted by: Sally on May 17, 2007 12:07 AMSally-
Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out...
"I come here every now and then and post my comments."
No shit!
"If you guys want to post for hours on this site, then more power to you."
Does that mean debunk your rhetoric? If so, then the answer is 'YES'
"So, I'm not going to always come back and read all of your responses and respond to all of them and answer all of your questions."
Why should you? You're all about surrender.
"Sorry, I'm just not going to make that investment."
Will you invest anything besides the surrender of the United States?
This site isn't a big part of my life and it never will be. Sorry. If you find this unacceptable or if this pisses you off, then feel free to ignore my posts.
(Read: I really want to be cool and impress my MySpace friends by shutting down a bunch of neo-cons, but since I couldn't, I'll make all of you NAZI's believe that the loss of my "input" is going to render you helpless...
Posted by: CharlieDelta on May 17, 2007 12:38 AM)
Posted by: CharlieDelta on May 17, 2007 12:48 AMI've said it before and I'll say it again: Sally isn't worth wasting our time on. She's a drive-by troll. I was amazed to see her response here, but she told us that she's not going to bother to come back to see what intelligent, reasoned debate looks like (with a few wisecracks and DanS ravings thrown in).
Tom Tancredo's my man, but if Fred were to run, I think a Thompson-Tancredo ticket would be unstoppable--especially against a Hillary-Obama ticket.
(Just remember his full name is Barack Hussein Obama, Jr.)
Posted by: Squidley on May 17, 2007 01:56 AMBTW, I have to say that I'm sorry that Sally won't be joining us. It's a pleasure to find an intelligent liberal who doesn't resort to name calling and "blah-blah-blah I can't hear you!" tactics.
Posted by: Squidley on May 17, 2007 02:00 AMSally, serious democrat candidates! What serious democrats? Who are they?
Posted by: gene Hall on May 17, 2007 06:08 AMFred!/Newt. That's the ticket. Who want's to take me up on the wager?
Fred Thompson......
I happen to agree that Fred would probably win the nomination if he chooses to run.Stage presence is all important for the ability of one to be elected in this day & age. Fred has this in spades plus knowing what he is talking about & displays genuine sincerity.
I am very encouraged as to Freds chances as most of the dimocratic talkingheads are taking potshots at him in efforts to spin a unfavorable opinion for him,they obviously recognize him as a major threat.
Viable dimocratic candidates? .......Well so much for comedy.I do not see anyone current or on the horizen with the qualifications of a traditional democrat as the party once generated to inspire the base or general public. When JFK spoke, people listened in awe & respect. When Hillary or any of her fellow wannabes chirp , people say Yeah Right! what a load of BS!
Socialist Sally........Does the term quitter mean anything to you? It should ,it is the backbone of dimocratic foreign policy.I am not surprised you intend to cut & run, liberals do that when confronted with truth & resolute obstruction to acceptance of their liberal BS. I for one did enjoy your posts as you are obviously educated & can communicate without reliance for the cruder approach favored by most Liberal`s who appear sporadically on this site.
One observation I would like to offer you is, in your endeavor to influence a shift of our opinion to the Liberal side of the debate,you displayed the common trait of all academically trained Liberal activists. You have been educated far beyond the level of common sense you were born with & are incapable of applying that common sense to your convoluted viewpoints. Everything must fit a higher purpose or grand design & nothing just is or can be accepted as reality. Ponder this in your journey through life as you continue the liberal effort to change the world as reality might overcome you at anytime.
As far as the other Republican potential contenders, I like Tancredo,Romney,Guiliani & Newt but recognize the baggage each brings with them. I suppose I would even accept McCain over any of the dimocrats......Reluctantly but think of the alternative.
Posted by: dudley1 on May 17, 2007 09:15 AMImagine the visual image of Fred Thompson on stage debating the Breck Guy. Edwards will be flying his hair stylist out to the campaign stops and Fred asking "Is there a barber in this town?".
RACE OVER.
Sally:
My problem with Thompson is that he's very long on style and short on substance.
Really?
Like.. someone.. who.. pops on a site, posts inane commentary, tries to debate, gets her butt handed to her, so then now comments, without rebuttal when she's embarrassed?
Like.... That?
Funny, Thompson doesn't seem to have that problem. He's got lots of policy programs and ideas - he's been very vocal about them.
So, what do you disagree with?
When he doesn't know the policy, he's just going to listen to his people and do what they say. That's not leadership.
Actually, Sally, that is. Knowing how to get the right people and listen to them is amazingly hard to get right. This is more of an example of why you fail.
Dr. Rice is an expert on foreign affairs, her resume bitchslaps anybody currently declared for the Presidental race. Do you support her?
This site started out as a place where Denny mocked the company he dared not name. Leadership is something you do not have any understanding of, and as a result, when you think someone has none, that's a good notion that they might have a lot.
Leadership isn't being the know-it-all at the top. Examples of that have failed miserably. Or having subordinates who aren't willing to stand up for what they believe in. Or governing by opinion polls.
No, Sally, the more you try and explain, the more you show you're a horrible judge at the subject at hand.
Actually, he didn't say much about U.S. policy with regard to Cuba.
Actually, he did. He pointed out that when a Cuban made a documentary about the health care system (a real documentary), he was categorized as insane, and tortured for years, and is still imprisioned.
Michael Moore: " The lawyers are telling us that we have to take some precautions immediately to protect the film. So we had to create a digital master copy and have it shipped out of the country so that if anything was seized, at least we'd have the master to make a negative from. This is really insane when you think about it in a free country."
Right. Because otherwise Bush would have done something. Just like he did after "Fahrenheit 911"
Oh. Wait.
That was his point. It was an incredibly good one. I'm waiting on your rebuttal.
So, I'm not going to always come back and read all of your responses and respond to all of them and answer all of your questions. Sorry, I'm just not going to make that investment.
How about "any" of the questions?
What investment? Either you know what you're talking about, or you don't.
Obviously, you don't, so you'll demonstrate your ignorance, and hold it up for humiliation.
And then blame us for having the termerity to point out that you don't know what you're talking about.
That's not honest, that's not in any sort of discussion, and you've now admitted that you're a troll.
Not that it surprises too many of us - I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, as I try to give everybody, but your MO became obvious very quickly.
Now you'll be mocked, but I do appreciate your (possibly accidental) honesty.
It is painful when the stupid right wingers (who just got a chubby because they know what Thompson is referring to) are smarter than you, huh? :)
Posted by: Unix-Jedi on May 17, 2007 10:15 AMSally:
Is he wrong about Cuba, and the hospitals there? (I have Cuban relatives, and can attest to some 2ndhand knowledge of the "free" health care afforded to the citizens)
Actually, he didn't say much about U.S. policy with regard to Cuba.
I didn't say anything about U.S. policy.
I asked "was he wrong about Cuba, and the hospitals there?".
My [redacted] is an OB/GYN. Born in Cuba, her family fled when Castro came to power. Had to leave everything. Her father died a millonaire.
She has members of the Cuban community who beg her (as a Cuban, surely she understands) to get prescriptions for antibiotics, anti-inflammatories and chemotherapy drugs. So they can go buy them (paying full retail), and then ship them via Mexico to their relatives in Cuba.
The only drugs the average "peasant" in Cuba can reliably expect to recieve via the "free" system are asprin, and penicillin.
I wonder why I agree with Thompson that MMoore's documentary is not going to reflect that hard fact.
Posted by: Unix-Jedi on May 17, 2007 10:27 AMSally:
And just to pile scorn on humiliation:
Dr. Dessy Mendoza Rivero wrote "¡Dengue! – La Epidemia Secreta de Fidel Castro"
The book begins with Dr. Mendoza's dramatic arrest at his home in his native city of Santiago de Cuba, the country's second-largest city, located on the easternmost portion of the island and home of the Sierra Maestra mountains.
Dr. Mendoza's crime was that of investigating, revealing and forcing the communist dictatorship to admit the existence of a raging epidemic of dengue fever in the spring and summer of 1997.
Because the Cuban communist authorities in the public health system kept the epidemic hush-hush, calling the disease "an unspecified virus," people continued to medicate themselves with aspirin for the prodromal (early flu-like) viral symptoms of the disease, tragically worsening the hemorrhagic manifestations of the disease.
Aspirin, about the only medication available to ordinary Cubans for any disease, aggravates bleeding by impairing the ability of platelets to agglutinate and coagulate bleeding sites. Dr. Mendoza describes some hapless patients who bled from every body orifice and suffocated on their own blood because of the bleeding tendency of the disease, worsened by the anti-platelet effects of aspirin.
for more than 30 years, even during the alleged "golden years of the Revolution," milk has been distributed by the ration book only to children up to seven years of age and to the elderly. Everyone else wanting milk must obtain it on the black market and risk imprisonment.
With such privations, it is not surprising that malnutrition, including vitamin deficiencies, such as lack of thiamine causing peripheral neuropathies and blindness (beriberi), is rampant.
... a vast proportion of the estimated 180,000 to 200,000 "common criminals" confined to Cuba's 500 prisons are people who have violated the law by killing their own pigs, cattle and even horses, and selling the excess meat on the black market.
Not enough?
How about a listing of major hospitals?
The waiting list for patients in need of medical procedures is endless. Improper protocol for sterilization of syringes and other hospital instruments along with the reuse of syringes and other medical tools without prior sterilization, expose hospital patients to contracting contagious diseases.
There are frequent and prolonged power blackouts in the hospital Juan Paz Camejo, located in the municipality of Sagua de Tánamo, forcing patients and doctors to use petroleum lamps where fumes coming out of these devices cause breathing disorders to patients.
I was trying to find the the video that was shot last year showing the mice and cockroaches in Cuban hospital operating rooms. But if this doesn't convince you, even that won't work, either.
There's 2 ways to deal with finding out that you're wrong.
Act like a child, petulantly demand that NO! THE EARTH DOES NOT ORBIT THE SUN!, or admit that your data is in error, and re-evaluate.
Many of the commentators on this site are very harsh on "Dimocrats", becaue they insist the world SHOULD be as they WISH it, not that it is, the way it is. Because making policy based on a Reality Distortion Field never, ever works.
The German Resistance issue - where you did admit that you were wrong, but that it didn't change your thinking in the slightest. But, you'd based that thinking off of incorrect data. Nevermind! Ok, I was wrong, but my conclusions are STILL CORRECT!
So, flounce off if you insist, but realise that you're not winning when you run up to us old codgers and yell "NO, NO! NO!!! YOU'RE WRONG! THAT WON'T HAPPEN!"
Posted by: Unix-Jedi on May 17, 2007 10:40 AMHey!
Here's reference to it, for Sally to ignore:
Every single castro supporter clings to this healthcare thing like it is some kind of holy grail.
In a debate, the fact that Cuba has the most political prisoners in the world is ignored. The fact that Cubans on the island lack even the most basic of necessities is ignored. Tourism apartheid is ignored. Everything is ignored save for the free healthcare and 100% literacy.
Of course, none of these Free healthcare! cheerleaders have ever been to a Cuban hospital. They've never been to a Cuban clinic. Hospitals and clinics serving the average Cuban, that is.
Or how about firing a doctor because he refused to operate without gloves and sterile instruments?
Mario Ariosta, a gynecologist, rushed into an operating room at National hospital in Havana to perform an emergency Cesarean section and found there were no gloves or sterilized instruments available. In his frustration, Ariosta loudly excoriated the government's inefficiency.
Hospital administrators fired a doctor and suspended his medical license for nine months after he loudly expressed his frustration with widespread inefficiency in Fidel Castro's government.
Was it Sally or Salad . I think Tuna Salad is more like it . I also think she works for Hilliary Clinton . Maybe she wants to be like her . Go away Sally .
Posted by: Big Mark on May 17, 2007 11:18 AMPoor Sally. Still no substance. Now it the "I'll take my ball and go home" argument. Damn libs. So easy a caveman could do it...
Article here:
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1808544/posts
Fred Thompson's resume
One thing that lefties seem to be continually arguing is that conservatives who want to see Fred Thompson as the GOP nominee for President are hypocrites because he lacks experience even more so then any of the Democratic frontrunners - Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, and John Edwards.
Well, they’re all attorneys, right? So it should be easy to compare their resumes. Lets take a look:
Barack Obama: Two years as a US Senator. No leadership positions in the Senate. Eight years as a state senator. Ran unsuccessfully for congress in 2000. Private practice attorney, law professor. Top quality education (Harvard)
Hillary Clinton: Six years as a US Senator. No leadership positions in the Senate. Eight years as First Lady of the US. Twelve years as First Lady of Arkansas. House Judiciary committee staffer, private practice attorney, law professor. Top quality education (Yale)
John Edwards: Six years as a US Senator. No leadership positions in the Senate. Democratic nominee for Vice-President in 2004. Private practice attorney. Top quality education (North Carolina)
Fred Thompson: Eight years as a US Senator. Four years as Chairman of the Governmental Affairs Committee. Assistant US Attorney. Co-Chief Senate Watergate Council. Special counsel to the Governor of Tennessee (1980), Special Counsel to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee (1980-81), Special Counsel to the Senate Intelligence Committee (1982), Private practice attorney. Actor, Radio show personality, research fellow with the American Enterprise Institute. Top quality education (Vanderbilt).
So, basically here we have four politicians, all attorneys, all with law degrees from top institutions, all with eight years or fewer in the Senate, all without long careers in public office. But from a legal perspective, Fred Thompson’s resume is clearly far more impressive. If we were sitting and examining each of these resumes for, say, an appellate court appointment none would dispute that Thompson’s is superior to the other three.
Now granted, we’re looking for a President here, not a judge. One could argue that Hillary’s experience as first lady was very valuable. Perhaps. But Fred Thompson - despite only serving a few years longer then the others in the Senate, held a tremendously important Committee Chairmanship while there. Combined with his work in a US Attorneys office, leading the Watergate investigation, and as an attorney advising Senate committees, he has enormous experience dealing with government reform issues and an understanding of the workings of the highest levels of government. Experience that the three Democrats simply don’t have. Each of them came to the US Senate already hungry for the Presidency, and have spent most of their time as Senators working toward that goal.
Fred Thompson’s resume is far superior. Arguing otherwise is ludicrous.
Posted by: vetfromhell on May 17, 2007 03:16 PMGentlemen, I'm going to spend my time on this site debating when I want to, and no longer than that. I'm not going to let you guys drag me into a protracted debate when I don't have the time for it. Sorry. If you want to declare victory when I don't stay for hours and debate, then feel free. Whatever works for you.
Unix, with regard to Cuba, thanks for your oddly voluminous posting, but I never said anything positive about Cuba or the Cuban health care system. Cuba is a dictatorship without even the most fundamental of freedoms. I don't support Cuba or Castro. The vast majority of liberals do not support Cuba or Castro. The issue is what kind of foreign policy towards Cuba is best for America? We utilize a policy of contructive engagement for China, but we completely boycott and shut out Cuba. Does that make sense? Of course not. The boycott doesn't make sense at all. That is not good for the United States, for Cuban-Americans or for the people of Cuba and for the possibility of their Democratic future.
Unfortunately, I won't be around all night to debate this. I'm not interested in spending all of my time on this message board. Sorry.
Posted by: Sally on May 17, 2007 08:27 PMSally:
I'm going to spend my time on this site debating when I want to, and no longer than that.
The next time will be the first.
I've been polite, I've treated you with respect, but it's never been returned.
The door's over there, dumbass. Open it before you try and walk through it, watch out so it doesn't close on you.
Posted by: Unix-Jedi on May 17, 2007 10:31 PMSally-
"message board"????
BEEEEWAAAAAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHA!
Unix-Jedi-
You have been nothing but honest, respectfull & patient with her, and I commend you for that! I don't know how you do it...
"Unfortunately, I won't be around all night to debate this. I'm not interested in spending all of my time on this message board. Sorry."
Oh NO!!!!!!
How will I ever sleep at night??????????
Posted by: CharlieDelta on May 18, 2007 12:05 AMHey you guys ........
Socialist Sally is taking her ball home & we have no one to debate with .....Guess we will have to check out porn sites.
As a point of contrast...Our President has spent his entire time in office being pilloried by the dimocrats, the LSM, the hollywood loonies,the liberal press,the liberal academia & probably has been bit by the neighbors dog. He has been mocked, lied about, accused of every concievable crime, judged to be stupid, incompetant, inarticulate,bumbling & the leader of a vast rightwing conspiracy which has orchestrated the war on terror for the benefit of his oilbuddies, concealing from everybody in the world his evil plans for a one world government.
Has he picked up his ball & ran for home........Noooooo! He has remained at his post , made the hard decisions even when he knew what the response would be from the left, he has tried to reach out to the dimocrats & almost had his arm ripped off. He has maintained his resolute beliefs. His only reward has been the constant ridicule of the liberal left while his opponent`s have engaged in treasonous acts of aid & comfort to the enemy & backstabbing of troops while working for Americas defeat.
I will state he has by my definition made many mistakes but as Truman did , the buck stops with him. I guess to me at least this attitude is preferable to the Bill Clintons, Algores, Comrade Kerrys & Mr Peanut.......But that is just my opinion!
So Socialist Sally ...go home, as I stated before you have been educated far beyond the level of common sense you were born with. This leaves you dis-functionable & at odds with what this country stands for....Once again, just go home!
Posted by: dudley1 on May 18, 2007 12:44 AMEverytime I read something from Silly Sally, that song Mustang Sally runs through my head, but with differant words...Mustache Sally, Mooslime Sally, Dingdang Sally. Feel free to play along and chime in bwhahahaha!
Posted by: LisaKay on May 18, 2007 02:49 AMWhy is this sexually frustrated silly little twat still here?
For the love of god someone screw some sense inter her, shes making the comments bloody dull.
Stupidity and socialist parroting is like watching play school... for dummies.
Posted by: Murray on May 18, 2007 04:46 AMI just can't get enough of that video. Fred is such a bad ass.
Posted by: Velociman on May 18, 2007 04:55 PMUnfortunately, I won't be around all night to debate this. I'm not interested in spending all of my time on this message board. Sorry.
Says Stalker Sally! LOLZ!
Posted by: vetfromhell on May 18, 2007 05:45 PMhttp://www.moviemistakes.com/film4329/corrections
Michael Moore's mistakes in Fahrenheit 9/11. While they're not *technically* mistakes, they're things he implied or hinted at. Very tricky guy.
Posted by: Jon on May 18, 2007 10:20 PMRecent speech by Mr. Thompson:
http://www.jacksonsun.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070521/NEWS01/705210314/1002
Posted by: vetfromhell on May 22, 2007 12:15 AM