Ya gotta hand it to socialists, they are nothing but persistent. In spite of all the massive failures of socialism in the 20th Century, there are still people who think they can make it work. We see the triumphs of socialism in places like North Korea where some of the population eats grass. And Cuba which has "free" health care. Lemme ask you a question: If you needed surgery, even minor surgery, where would you like to have it, in Cuba or the United States? In spite of what Michael Creosote opines, if you select Cuba, you're an idiot.
What do you think a Cuban or a North Korean would say if they walked into an American super market and saw all the fresh produce? What about the fresh dairy products and the assortment of fresh meat? They would think they had died and gone to heaven.
Back in the late 90's I traveled to Russia and took a boat from Moscow, through the rivers and lakes, to St. Petersburg. The people in the small towns begged for money from the "rich" Americans. Another example of the triumph of socialism.
It's true that people believe that the only reason socialism has never worked everywhere it's been tried is that the right people haven't been in charge or there hasn't been enough money to make it work.
Enter Hugo Chavez, the latest nincompoop who thinks he can be successful at making socialism work and what does he do? He follows the Robert Mugabe system. You know. Seize all the farms and divide them up and give 'em to the illiterate peasants.
The squatters arrive before dawn with machetes and rifles, surround the well-ordered rows of sugar cane and threaten to kill anyone who interferes. Then they light a match to the crops and declare the land their own.
There ya go. Destroy the crops that could be sold. Makes perfect sense to me.
For centuries, much of Venezuela’s rich farmland has been in the hands of a small elite. After coming to power in 1998, and especially after his re-election in December, President Hugo Chávez vowed to end that inequality, and has been keeping his promise in a process that is both brutal and legal.
Sound familiar? That's what happened in Zimbabwe. Remember Zimbabwe? It used to be a wealthy country that exported food. Thanks to Mugabe's socialism and land "reforms" it now has to import food and much of its population is starving. Also inflation is running about 1800%. What irony that Zimbabwe is chairing a UN committee on sustained development. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Mr. Chávez is carrying out what may become the largest forced land redistribution in Venezuela’s history, building utopian farming villages for squatters, lavishing money on new cooperatives and sending army commando units to supervise seized estates in six states.
"Utopian farming villages" and "cooperatives". Hmmmm! Sounds like something the Soviet Union tried. I wonder if Chavez is gonna set up 5 year plans?
The violence has gone both ways in the struggle, with more than 160 peasants killed by hired gunmen in Venezuela, including several here in northwestern Yaracuy State, an epicenter of the land reform project, in recent years. Eight landowners have also been killed here.
Well geez, dontcha know that you gotta break eggs to make an omelet?
Mr. Chávez’s supporters have formed thousands of state-financed cooperatives to wrest farms and cattle ranches from private owners. Landowners say compensation is hard to obtain. Local officials describe the land seizures as paving stones on “the road to socialism.”
Paving stones to disaster would be more like it.
he government says the goal of the nationwide resettlement is to make better use of idle land and to make Venezuela less dependent on food imports. New laws allow squatters to manage and farm land that has now been placed in government hands.
What do you want to bet that food imports are gonna go up rather than down?
Carlos Machado Allison, an agricultural economist at the Institute for Higher Administrative Studies in Caracas, said demand for food had climbed more than 30 percent in the last two years with the oil boom, while Venezuela’s capacity to produce food grew only 5 percent.
And it's gonna get worse. The only thing that allows the gummint to build the houses for the peasants on the cooperatives is the oil money and that will only go so far. Just like in Zimbabwe, they have seized the lands of people who actually know how to farm and given it to illiterate peasants who don't.
Watch over the next five years as Venezuela goes down the crapper.
It will be Bush's fault.
Posted by denny at May 17, 2007 07:32 PMSocialism insures that everyone will be equal. Equally poor! It has never worked and never will because it takes the human spirit away from man's desire to be better than his compatriots. When one has no desire to be better,then he will never be. There are no reasons for advancement because everyone is equal. North Korea is a good example of equality. They are all starving except the military and they are on half rations. It won't be long before another one will fall. The danger is that they have nukes.
Posted by: gene Hall on May 17, 2007 10:00 PMI can't wait until Hugo's world collapses around him. No worries though I'm sure he will find asylum in France.
Posted by: Hammer on May 17, 2007 10:10 PMGene:
Allow me to disagree. Slightly.
Socialism can work, as long as one of two situations is true:
1) There is no surplus, and everybody must work together or everybody dies (The Gods Must Be Crazy for a great example)
2) The socialist group is selected and agree on the goals and methods, and are able to eject members who freeload. (a href="http://www.amazon.com/Walden-Two-Trade-Book-Skinner/dp/002411510X">Walden Two as the example/template).
Attempts to mandate/implement socialism on people as a whole are doomed to failure. Capitalism takes into account human nature for the most part. Socialism presumes otherwise.
I suspect that Hugo will be around for a long long time. I wrote a post on this coming up a few months ago. My concern is this is going to spread to neighboring countries and we'll be looking at all of S. America like we looked at the USSR. God forbid should it spread to Mexico. That would suck.
Posted by: Bou on May 17, 2007 10:57 PMI personally believe that we should be more concerned about our captured troops in Iraq. But that's just me. Please carry on with the socialism issue. The most worthless class I took in college.
Posted by: Teresa on May 17, 2007 11:15 PMYou don't suppose, do you, that one who couldn't even SPELL 'socialism' might be the one getting crankier-than-EVER over something like gasoline price-increases every other day or so, do you?
See, while we argue here the high-minded, the principled-position, the need for facts, and while we here are sure & confident within our respective-position, does it ever occur to you that all those peasants are getting more desperate, more squeezed, more dis-illusioned, and considering things more-radical?
I'm not a radical .... -but I'm in daily contact with 10's of such radicals ... and they are turning into a score of such radicals by the day. Every day.
Supply & Demand is all very well for we informed, ....-but what about those 'other's'; those who are starting to get real fucking edgy and restless when a tank of gas and a carton of smokes goes for slightly-under $80-bucks? They don't have the benefit of your wisdom or voice.
Where do you suppose that money is going to come from?
Where do you suppose all that money is going?
Decent, otherwise-honorable aquaintance, are starting to talk like they would join ANY movement that would try and overthrow what they consider as the ROBBERY of their pocket.
They are ANGRY! They are dis-illusioned! They feel RAPED and betrayed by the Bush Crime Family doing any & all things that make sure that the money flows ever-upward.
All I'm saying is that while you & I and others here are fighting Dems, Repubs, socialists & Islamist-fucks and bullshit, there are those who are turning to CRIME now .... here in the US of A, ... just to sustain a daily-ration of food, clothing, shelter and a drink or two.
You are aware of this, yes?
Posted by: DanS on May 17, 2007 11:16 PM
Well, since you mentioned Michael Creosote, I just had to go dig this up.
Posted by: PeggyU on May 17, 2007 11:21 PMTeresa-
Why is your glass always half empty instead of half full?
You took a "socialism" class in college? I'm sorry to hear that...
I hope you at least learned that the socialist's are the worst 'class' of people on the planet.
Why?
Because they have none...
Posted by: CharlieDelta on May 17, 2007 11:32 PMPeggy U - Check out what I posted here.
Teresa - You took socialism? Or was it sociology? BTW, since you are a good little liberal, you would make a good socialist. There's not really much difference. Liberals are trying to implement socialism.
Dan - Crap! Now I have to go through my post and see where I misspelled socialism.
If they can't afford the price of a carton of smokes maybe they should quit. You do realize that the largest component of the price of cigarettes is taxes don't you? Cigarette taxes are taxes on the stupid.
If they can't afford gas they should take MARTA. Seriously, factoring for inflation gas has not even reached an all time high yet. Using the handy dandy Inflation calculator, I remember that I paid around $1 per gallon of gas in 1976 and that computes to $3.62 in 2006 dollars. Gas is still a bargain. That's why I'm not bitching about the price.
Now, are you for drilling in ANWR? Are you for drilling off the coast of the United States? Are you for building more refineries? Are you for cutting down on the number of blends due to environmental concerns? If not, then you are part of the problem.
Posted by: Denny on May 17, 2007 11:50 PMDan:
there are those who are turning to CRIME now .... here in the US of A, ... just to sustain a daily-ration of food, clothing, shelter and a drink or two.
Oh, give it a rest.
The drink, or 5, maybe. Food? Why in the hell do I hear about this "epidemic of obesity" in the impoverished?
Shelter? Not something people steal for - and not that hard to come by.
No, Dan, the usual suspects for crimes continue to be the ones wanting a fix for drugs or alcohol - as much as that bursts your bubble.
Bush Crime Family doing any & all things that make sure that the money flows ever-upward.
Really. And.. what do they do with it? Bury it in the backyard? (That's even aside from the slander, and the problems with the veracity of that, especially compared to other, say, notable political familes.)
Posted by: Unix-Jedi on May 18, 2007 12:02 AMU-J:
Hide and watch.
The veracity of my post will be coming to a neighborhood near you within weeks.
It's not my intention.
You never burst my bubble; I merely report what I see with my eyes. You can knock me down, spit in my face; slander my name all over the place! Do anything that you like to do .....
You call it obesity; they call it basic-hunger.
Homeless don't fight over shelter??? BE THANKFUL and understand how WRONG you are on that!
And I suppose you are correct about "the ones wanting a fix for drugs or alcohol." Which is exactly my point: more & more are turning to those sad-alternatives.
You Tell ME: where is all that money going? I know where it flows-from.
Dan - Overlooked your "money flows upward" comment. is that the old "rich get richer" bullshit? I get richer every year and it has nothing to do with the "Bush crime family". I have no money invested in those eeeeevil oil companies. But I have invested my money wisely. I have lived within my means. I don't waste money on cigarettes and lottery tickets. I did smoke, but realized it was ruining my health so I quit. It wasn't easy, but I did it.
Just think if those people who buy cigarettes would quit and invest that money in mutual funds. Let's say they spend $20 a week on smokes (probably more). If they invested that money that would be $1040 a year. Think of doing that for 20 years and compounding the gains in the stock market. They would have a nice tidy little sum.
The rich get richer because they do the things that made them rich in the first place. The poor get poorer because they continue doing the things that made them poor.
BTW, the richest 1% pay 35% of the taxes in this country. What should their "fair share" be?
Posted by: Denny on May 18, 2007 12:24 AMDan - Where is the money going? have you looked at the budget? The largest comnponents are Social Security and various welfare programs. They are all larger than the defense budget, but fear not. In 2008, when Hillary wins, our defense department and intelligence services will be gutted to pay for even more failing social programs, thus leaving us more vulnerable for the next 9/11. But that's OK. It will be Bush's fault.
Posted by: Denny on May 18, 2007 12:29 AMDen:
"Now, are you for drilling in ANWR? Are you for drilling off the coast of the United States? Are you for building more refineries? Are you for cutting down on the number of blends due to environmental concerns"?
Fucking-A, I am!
Except ... -it is the refiners themselves who are are colluding to produce the 'scarcity' that drives up prices. Each knows exactly what the other is doing or is capable of doing.
What did Conoco & the like post as PROFIT (You know, after R&D and such ...) to increase refining-capacity? NOTHING!!!! If I was reaping $36-BILLION a quarter, I'd not be burying it in the backyard; I'd be trying to SOLVE the problem ..........; -except they don't see it as a 'problem', do they?
The regional-'blends' thing is a JOKE! It's merely a palpable-reason for scamming us that the pipelines have to be cleared, purged, cleansed and then set up for the MONTHLY change-over. As if there were no such thing as Interstate highway or different-wind in the diverse parts of our Country.
Check your facts and you'll see the World is AWASH in oil these days. But Big Oil can't tell you THAT, now can they?
Posted by: DanS on May 18, 2007 12:41 AMDanS:
You call it obesity; they call it basic-hunger.
I, err, report what I'm being told it is. Along with the host of illnesses and ailments that the obesity is causing.
And how heartless insurance companies or the government isn't doing a good enough job of covering those ailments.
Dan, how can there be obesity, if people don't have enough to eat?
How many cases of diabetes do you supposed we'd find in, oh, say, Rwanda? Compared to say, Metro ATL?
Homeless don't fight over shelter??? BE THANKFUL and understand how WRONG you are on that!
I didn't say that. I said there was shelter available.
But when you bring up homelessness, that brings up the topic of mental illness, and how people OUTRAGED like you are now cleansed, purged, dumped out all sorts of people who were sheltered and fed in mental health facilities in the 70s and 80s - resulting in those fighting on the streets for cardboard boxes.
Sorry, Dan, that's not Bush's problem, that's the Liberal "How Dare You Lock Him Up, Let Him Go" mantra - damn all the circumstances.
Look at Teresa and Sally. They fit in with you: "I feel this way, so it must be right, and nothing bad will happen".
Well, we dumped those mental institutions, and got insane homeless, and lots of insane criminals.
And I suppose you are correct about "the ones wanting a fix for drugs or alcohol." Which is exactly my point: more & more are turning to those sad-alternatives.
Then I suggest you need to start explaining their error to them.
You Tell ME: where is all that money going? I know where it flows-from.
What money? Going where? Shit, Dan, about 1/3 of what *I* make goes straight to the government. Let's talk about the government racket, if we're going to talk stealing.
You've complained about the "obscene" profits of oil companies - but been silent about the taxes on that oil (plus the taxes on the profits!) which is well over 3x the "profits" - and remains the same whether or not there *is* a profit!
We cut the percentage of taxes, and now the government is bringing in more! Because people are doing better! Care to explain that?
Bank's "create" money. People create wealth. And this country is the wealthiest one in the history of the world. Barring major medical issues, Dan, you can live on "minimum wage". It might not be as you'd prefer, but you can get so much food that you'll want to demand you stomach stapled, and a roof over your head, and probably even a car to drive. All possible.
People have choices, Dan. When you infantize them, and insist that they don't, you do them the worst disservice in the world.
Posted by: Unix-Jedi on May 18, 2007 12:41 AMDenny, $1 a gallon gas in '76? That's when I first got my license ( I was born in '60), and I remember a gallon of gas in Phoenix being about 59 cents a gallon...My parents SOLD me a '69 Chevy Impala and gave me a Chevron credit card, and at the end of the month I'd say "Hey, it's only $10 to fill up my tank."
Good thing there weren't itemized charges back then. Otherwise they'd see beer (which I was too young to buy, so I acually didn't), pop, snacks, etc.
Den:
I am NOT advocating ANY social-programs of any kind!
I am NOT excusing the stupids who smoke, drink, lottery and stuff dollar-bills in garters at strip clubs.
I AM saying that I see those things happening and that it is tighter than ever to continue that behavior. Note that I am not speaking of myself!
I am telling you that no matter how much you pray on it, that the money is running out in that underclass and they are moving to desperate-means.
End of transmission.
Posted by: DanS on May 18, 2007 12:48 AMWhat did Conoco & the like post as PROFIT (You know, after R&D and such ...) to increase refining-capacity? NOTHING!!!! If I was reaping $36-BILLION a quarter, I'd not be burying it in the backyard; I'd be trying to SOLVE the problem ..........; -except they don't see it as a 'problem', do they?
Dan, I'd like you to meet the EPA.
Of course, it's another little niggling problem that seemed to miss everybody when it seemed such a good idea AT THE TIME....
But you can't build a refinery in the US anymore.
$36B? And nobody's willing to jump on that? Dan, this is where economics kicks in, and you say "Gee, what in the hell is going on in that market".
And you'll find that the EPA-mandated emissions requirements pretty much shred the sciences of chemistry and physics as much as the writers of Star Trek.
Which is why we've not seen a single. refinery. built. since. 1978.
Now, you can improve existing refineries! Some. Only some, and your emissions requirement go up some. But fix/improve too much! And wham, you're "new"!
And now the state EPA-analogs jump in. Now there's special fuel mandated for most metro areas, with extra oxygenates for smog reduction.
Reduces gas milage by about 15%, helps when older engines are idling. All engines running at highway speeds don't make enough noxious exhaust to matter. But anyway.
ATL "boutique" blend can't be used in Columbia. Nor Miami. Birminham's? Yep, it's different. So you can't store them together! Nor can you run the blend months ahead of time, and store it - they decay!
THAT is what's going on, Dan.
And every one of those problems is a direct result of someone trying to fix a prior problem. Hey! With fully good intentions, I'll believe, just as you do, now.
Checked the price of a gallon of 10-30W?
Compare it versus a year ago. Track the cost of it over the year - motor oil is stable, no VOC additives/oxygenates. Refineries can make it and store it.
And amazingly, Dan.. Motor oil? Stays pretty constant in price. Up when crude goes up, down when it drops. Ponder that for a bit.
Posted by: Unix-Jedi on May 18, 2007 12:50 AMDanS, I'd think as you get insulted because of your stupidity you'd get wiser, but nope.
The fact is the EVILLLL oil companies make about 8 cents profit on a gallon of gas...Geeez, I'm tired of having to explain this. Buy a bike and tell Amoco to kiss you ass...
that the money is running out in that underclass and they are moving to desperate-means.
Dan:
But not desperate enough to get a (second) job, I take it.
Unemployment's ~5%, "HELP WANTED" signs everywhere, and you tell me people are desperate.
Posted by: Unix-Jedi on May 18, 2007 12:53 AMU-J:
Ever seen a seriously malnutritioned kid? They have HUGE extended bellies! Guess you'd label them 'obese', right?
I'm not outraged over anything! That is so 2002! I tried, I fought, I cajoled, I posted; y'all didn't want to 'hear' what I was 'seeing' then so I gave up. I got with you.
Now, these days, I have no opinion to get outraged over. I'm just watching.
Before Argentina collapses, America, as in these United States of America, will brankrupt itself and we will be at war with our own. That's not my 'opinion'; that's my shut-mouth observation.
Posted by: DanS on May 18, 2007 12:58 AMEver seen a seriously malnutritioned kid? They have HUGE extended bellies! Guess you'd label them 'obese', right?
I can honestly say I never have, Dan. Outside of a few cases of child abuse.
Not in this country, I've never seen anyone malnourished. (Your insult will be ignored)
Where are these malnourished kids, and why are they not getting the help that we're paying for? Why are you observing them and not calling the people who assist?
Posted by: Unix-Jedi on May 18, 2007 01:07 AMSocialism? - From each according to his gullability, to each according to his greed.
Posted by: Rurik on May 18, 2007 01:17 AMOkay, then! Have it YOUR way! It doesn't change a single observation on my part.
I keep telling you that these are NOT my opinions or beliefs!
I think a Conservative near & dear to me is correct when she says that y'all are NOT dumb ........FAR FROM IT! Rather, you see things SO CLEARLY that you can't admit that you have no answers for the things you see with such clarity.
Except the tell others what to do, how to think & most-importantly, what NOT to do or think or say.
She says, (and I agree) that you NEVER post about what YOU will do or say or think about solving any issue without 'instructing' others as to how THEY should do.
Posted by: DanS on May 18, 2007 01:18 AMDanS-
Are you bangin' Sally?
Not much DanS, except the same comedy routine...
Posted by: CharlieDelta on May 18, 2007 01:30 AMU-J:
No insult intended. You can go into the inner-city of any of our top-30 Metropolis and see what you might think are our 'fat' kids; -they are not fat & diabetic because of their rich-diet.
Posted by: DanS on May 18, 2007 01:33 AMCD:
What do YOU see ahead for the America of your understanding?
What will YOU be doing? I don't want to hear about what everyone else should be doing!
I honestly want to know: what will YOU be doing, regardless of anyone and all-else, to bring about YOUR vision for America?
Mind, you CANNOT say a WORD about what anyone else should (or should not) be doing!
I'm up for another hour or so, and I look forward to your response.
Posted by: DanS on May 18, 2007 01:38 AMDan:
In that case, why has either:
1) Child Protection not been called
2) Child Protection not doing their job?
DanS-
What do I see ahead for the America of MY FUTURE?
I see a future of exploitation. I see my hard work paying for the FUTURE of the leetches (Mexicans) in this Country sapping off of our system. I see apathy reaching it's peak! I see this Country going to shit thanks to Pelosi and her band of Cunts! I see my rifle being taken away from me because people don't kill people, guns do...
I see neices and nephews having to pick up the pieces that their Aunts and Uncles couldn't. I see more than I ever wanted to. I see apathy on a level higher than God himself! I see it on a daily basis.
What do you see?
Posted by: CharlieDelta on May 18, 2007 01:55 AMCD:
That's not what I asked!
I asked what would YOU be doing to make your DREAM of America become a reality! I asked that you NOT involve anyone other than yourself.
Again: what will YOU BE DOING to make the America-of-your-Understanding be a reality?
Posted by: DanS on May 18, 2007 01:58 AMU-J:
Because malnutrition as a way of life is exactly-that: a way of life.
No one asks for it or desires to be born into it; it happens that some cannot feed the hungry children. And the hungry children, sooner or later, decide that the hunger overwhelms.
No politics, no judgemental-calls, nothing except that some kids go to bed hungry .....; and get larger bellies because of it.
I've already shared w/you that my Wife gives-away 50-70% of our household-income to such-cause.
I hate it. I love it.
But I don't blame the kid with the 'fat' body.
And I think, neither do you. You just didn't 'know'. Now you do.
Posted by: DanS on May 18, 2007 02:07 AMDanS-
If it came down to it, I WILL be behind my rifle DEFENDING it.
As for your question of my "understanding" of this COUNTRY, I guess I will continue to DO what I HAVE been doing my entire life;
I will love it, or I will leave it...
...and I WILL defend it before I leave it!
Where will you be?
Posted by: CharlieDelta on May 18, 2007 02:15 AMDen:
Dan - Overlooked your "money flows upward" comment. is that the old "rich get richer" bullshit? I get richer every year and it has nothing to do with the "Bush crime family".
I get richer every DAY and it has EVERYTHING to do with the "Bush Crime Family"!
Every once in awhile, I check my 'portfolio' and I see that I am heavy in Defense Industry, along with materials and financial services.
I don't control where my money goes to work, and I'm something of a hypocrite when I notice that every HMMV, every thing destroyed increases my wealth.
Having watched how my funds have done over the last 30-some years, it's EZ to see the 'spikes' when Raytheon ... General Dynamics ... Boeing ...Bell-Textron and the like are awarded contracts to replace what is lost in 'war'.
My Wife has her dough in the likes of the "Ave Maria"-Funds; she does as well as I do, .... except her dividend comes from empowering & building ...rather than destruction & replacement.
So, we tussle all the time. It ain't about the money! It's about a philosophy of what we here on Earth are all about.
Posted by: DanS on May 18, 2007 02:40 AMCD:
Again, I ask: what will YOU be doing not to DEFEND our Country but to BUILD our Country?
Man w/Rifle in Trench: rather EZ!
Man Dealing w/ Injustice: MUCH harder work!
Man w/Rifle in Trench: 50/50-proposition Win-Lose.
Man Dealing w/ Injustice: 10%-down, 100%-payoff.
NO Welfare! No Handout's!
Just hard-core TRUTH for all!
And EMPOWERING the 'other' to understand what 'TRUTH" is for the larger-understanding of ALL!!
DanS-
To (RE)BUILD our Country, I would start telling "immigrants" to assimilate or get the fuck out! Starting with mooslimbs, and ending with Mexicans. Or the other way around...
...it doesn't really matter who leaves first as long as they assimilate or leave!
"Man w/Rifle in Trench: rather EZ!
Man Dealing w/ Injustice: MUCH harder work!"
-Man bashing his country for some kind of 'Injustice' without explanation is rather EZ too!
"Man w/Rifle in Trench: 50/50-proposition Win-Lose.
Man Dealing w/ Injustice: 10%-down, 100%-payoff."
-Man w/Rifle in Trench 50/50? I'll take the 50%.
"NO Welfare! No Handout's!"
-No habla...
"Just hard-core TRUTH for all!
And EMPOWERING the 'other' to understand what 'TRUTH" is for the larger-understanding of ALL!!"
-I love the hard-core TRUTH! It's too bad a lot of you on the left can't handle even soft-core TRUTH.
SLEEP, my Friend, CD!
It will do us well -the Good Lord willin' & the Creek don't rise-, we will again enjoy what Tomorrow has to offer.
Posted by: DanS on May 18, 2007 03:34 AMNo worries DanS-
You asked me a question and I answered it...
You never answered mine...
What do you see?
Where will you be?
What do I see?
I see a swarthy rag-head with BULGING-biceps wearing a turban at any-of/all of the gas stations and motels everywhere from Sumpter SC to Bozeman MT.
Where will I be?
At the counter ............asking them which County of Ireland they emmigrated from.
Such kicks off a dialogue; such dialogue is where I place my Faith.
I usually say to them that my ancestors are from (get ready for this:) Haji-Ma-Main-Dia-RHEA.
And you know what? They have no idea as to the truth or falsity of what I've said.
Which leads to an exchange.
Which leads to a conversation.
Which means I get to ask them exactly what village in County Cork they think is Home.
Which means they get to ask me exactly where Haji-Ma-Main-Dia-RHEA is!
And before we know it, here's two BULL-shitter's coming-to-terms with one-another!
Everything after that is anti-climatic; we have established that we are but two in the Sea and have value to each other.
Perhaps he'll kill me one day; -perhaps I'll kill him. All we know is that it will be all-the-harder because we have shared a moment of Humanity in each other. Perhaps I'll pull his Muslim-ass out of a flaming car-wreck; perhaps he'll tackle the asshole who stole my TV.
The point is this: either you HAVE faith or you don't. I'm willing, my Family is willing, and I bet the hated "other" is willing- ... to have Faith that Individuals win-out every time against those abstract 'principles' that we are 'supposed to' embrace.
How then, do we 'make' the 'other' more enthralled? We don't.
We win each-other over.
I'm confident it's the same question asked by any-individual. Only suckers & losers base thier Faith on political-allegience or Party.
In short, we short-circuited each other until the next day.
YOU can make of that Day what you will, but .....
Dan S.
Thank You! You are so kind to have pointed out the fact that life isn't perfect. It isn't my fault for not making something of my life, it's the Bush Crime Family-it's their fault! We all now know that the money flows upward! Oh Dan S, I consider you a prophet amongst the big earred rodents that hop around in my yard! You are truley the voice of reason, a true problem solver! If I had a team, I'd want you on it! Oops, you gave me an out. I am hungry, it's okay, I don't have to do for myself, I'll be right back Dan S. I'm gonna run out and join a gang and commit robberies and sell some drugs. Hey-I'm angry right-you said-so it must be okay.?
Actually, I'm sitting here smoking and trying to decipher your D'Vinci coded messages.
Yeah, I smoke, I love it! It may take years off of my life sure, but only the ones I don't want. Smoking is still legal, so is butter and a big fat juicy steak and a great bottle of wine.I'm not obese either Dan and in no way am I a drain on your tax dollar. I understand you with your observations, but the conclusions you draw are just plain silly.
I make my living on trucks etc. Trucks run every thing in this country. You need to food shop, a truck brought it. You need your power lines, a truck brought it. You need the evil gas in your car a truck brought it. You see a movie lately? a truck made that happen. Had your garbage hauled away? Anyone you know needed an ambulance or a UPS? Trucks, trains and ships bring that stuff to you. My company invents and manufactures the electronic systems that keep that shit coming to to YOUR house.
Changing over to Ethanol would ruin all the gaskets in those engines, and it would deplete our own food supply. You can't run ethanol anywhere without a truck, it evaporates.
Dan S. I like my trucks and my food supply.I love my cigarettes as well. Lemme guess, yer still eating margarine? It's a petroleum product!
On the basic need for shelter, I own rental property. It took me a long time to find my next new renters. Why? Because, every family in MN with good credit bought a house during the best economy ever! I found a good mix of young roomates. Now they can see their money flow upward-to someone who takes the huge risk and pays double taxes. They can build their credit as well. Thanks Dan S.in your usual way, you have reminded me that I am hungry, not angry, to keep chasing the American Dream.
Oh Dan S.
I just read your post about County Cork. You are an idealistic BOOB. They will cut your head off before you finish your sentance.
Tell me which hotel you work at so I know never to stay there? While you engage in your so called witty banter, can you push a silent alarm so that patrons can run for the nearest exit?
Dan S. are you a crack head? Where is your Momma? You need a smack up side your fool head.
Dan:
You didn't answer me.
WHERE ARE THE PEOPLE WE'RE PAYING TO DEAL WITH EXACTLY THAT?
Why have you not called them?
Posted by: Unix-Jedi on May 18, 2007 07:39 AMAll the distended bellies I see here in America also have distended necks, arms and legs. The poor nutrition they eat is in the form of Mc Nasty Burgers and fries, candy bars and soda pop. Those things cost MORE than a decent meal. You can buy a bag of baby carrots for arround $1.50, and its a healthy snack. There were kids in my old neighborhood who made a nightly treck to Blubber King because Momma was too lazy to make supper, let alone get a job. One neighbor kid regularly came home from school and sat in front of the TV from 3:30 until 7:30 eating junk. He out weighed me, and he was eleven. At 17, he is over 300 lbs and has to drive to get to his friends house, which is less than two blocks. I had a riot one night shortly before I moved. He pulled out from in front of his house, and drove the block. Unfortunately, there was an activity at the private school across from his friends house, and no where to park. He drove arround the block several times, then went back home. Unfortunately, some one from the school meeting had parked in front of momma's house, and walked the two blocks to the school. he had to park about three blocks down. Amazingly, he just sat there in the car and watched until a parking spot opened up in front of momma's house.
Explain that, Dan. This kid has the big belly you talk about, and its getting HUGE! I doubt he has ever missed a snack, let alone a meal, and yup they are poor and on food stamps.
DanS the Socialist Liberal Idealist
All of the downtrodden, starving bloated belly dregs of society , angry looking for salvation,a home & food must live near you because they sure as hell aint nowhere else.
Do we have a welfare culture here in western Pennsylvania.....Hell yes! Let me explain, they get Welfare funds which magically increase everytime the minimum wage goes up, food stamps, subsidized housing , first dollar medical cards for free health care, many use the SS system for SSI money for their flock of illegitimate offspring, virtually free school lunch programs & on & on & on.
Have you ever visited an emergency room in the evening? Around here the welfare minorities use the lounge of the emergency room for a community center.Healthcare costs controlled? Bull shit! they get first dollar coverage for free & use emergency room services for sniffles, headaches & get taken care of. We who work have to pay for our healthcare but can not use the Emergency room unless it is an actual emergency. If Blue Cross decides otherwise you are billed for services rendered while these leechs have carte blanc service courtesy of the taxes we who work pay.
There are so many of these welfare lizards infesting the Emergency room lounge, the snack bar cannot cope, the lizards have a constant stream of people going to the Mcdonalds across the street one block up & bringing back bags full of Burgers, Fries, Mcnuggets & Shakes....the refuse of which is deposited on the furniture & floor of the longe area.
Starving kids? Bullshit! This area has some of biggest lardasses & land whales courtesty of the welfare system, obesity is a huge problem, diabetes is on the rise but Fastfood Restaurants within strolling distance of subsidized housing are a virtual goldmine.
Do I sound angry? Am I angry? You are damned right! I am sick & tired of you liberals who are too freaking stupid to see the mess your meddling do-good, feel-good, lets make a differance BS has done to our society. One thought ....what will you idiots do if the people who do work abandon their pride & leap onto the welfare gravy train like the leeches you have so carefully nurtured?
I know this won`t make a dent in your idealized version for The Socialist States of America but maybe, just maybe a glimmer of reality will shine through.
Posted by: DUDLEY1 on May 18, 2007 08:41 AMDan:
At more leisure....
You're complaining about the "Bush Crime Family", but not using the social services that we're paying for, critizing us for objecting to our money being removed at gunpoint to fund said social services....
And then you've got the audacity to then tell me they don't work? (And you're not doing your part, and your wife too? Who's the real Crime Family here?)
Dan, if you're right - social services has failed.
The answer is not to pour more money into social services.
Where are these malnourished kids? I'm not being rhetorical, you have my full attention. This is something we need to bring to the local, state, national authorities attention, and get the Press involved. So we need specifics.
Because I certainly don't see anyone near here who's mostly-sane starving to death.
Posted by: Unix-Jedi on May 18, 2007 08:50 AMDanS - To imply that there are starving children in the United States is totally ludicrous. Our poor live better than the majority of the people on this planet. They get foodstamps. They get gummint subsidized housing with running water. How many people in Africa, Asia, or parts of Latin America have running water? They have televisions. They have cellphones. Jesus H. Christ Dan! Get a fucking grip. You have been drinking too much of the Dimocrats' and LSM's Kool Aid. If right now there was a Dimocrat president the LSM would be touting this as the best economy in 40 years. Unemployment is under 5% and holding steady. Inflation is under control. The stock market is hitting new highs. You've been reading me long enough to realize that other than a catastrophic accident, catastrophic illness, or lack of intelligence, there is absolutely no reason to be poor in this country.
There is no fucking plot by the fucking oil companies. Our refineries are running at capacity. I know! let's institute price controls! That worked so well back in the 70's didn't it? So if the world is awash in oil (which it isn't because of increased demand by China and India) we should be able to build more refineries, but it is not the oil companies stopping that. They want to build more refineries. The NIMBY's and the liberals will not allow them to do so.
Rob - I remember I bought my 1973 Monte Carlo from my girlfriend because gas prices were going up. I thought I paid a dollar a gallon in 1976. Maybe it was 1977 or 1978. Let's use 1978 with ye olde inflation calculator. Voila! $3.21. Still not at an all time high.
Posted by: Denny on May 18, 2007 11:00 AMBut but but... The people who get money from the government to feed starving people in this country say there's starving people in this country! They couldn't be wrong, could they?!?
Sweet fancy honey mustard, people iz dumb! We've been trying to use gov't to stamp out poverty since the 1920s and it's still here!!! What does that tell you???
Posted by: pdb on May 18, 2007 11:05 AMBill Whittle's Trinity -- Must Read for Socialist Wannabes -- explains why Chavez has just consigned Venezuela to the shitter:
http://www.ejectejecteject.com/archives/2003_07.html
and a response to those who bitch about big bad oil companies profits:
http://www.gravmag.com/oil.html#dollar
Posted by: Jon on May 18, 2007 12:10 PMJeremy's right about the nutrition issue. There's a huge difference between a poor obese American kid with diabetes and a starving Ethiopian kid with a distended abdomen. The American kid gets enough calories, but not the right nutrients. That's not because of the unavailability of food, but because of poor choices on the part of caregivers. We could actually eat a lot smaller meals and spend the difference on healthier food. I saw it written somewhere that hunger is not an emergency. You have to discriminate between hunger and starvation.
The kid who is literally starving, on the other hand, has begun to cannibalize his own body to stay alive. The effect is wasted limbs and a protruding belly. Not the same situation at all.
Posted by: Peggy U on May 18, 2007 02:29 PMI guess we ought to believe DanS.
He doesn't seem the dishonest sort.
So if our social services have failed that badly, it's just best to disband them, obviously the money is going to the Bush Crime Family. So we'll cut them, stop spending that much money, and we'll be able to afford more cops to arrest the waifs stealing bread, and lock them up.
Posted by: Unix-Jedi on May 18, 2007 03:20 PMYou sure can tell when Dan S. is off his meds. What is up with the libs and fucking gibberish?
Posted by: vetfromhell on May 18, 2007 05:40 PMSocialism is great...when the government knows what the hell it's doing. I know very, very little about Hugo Chavez, except he sent a few million barrels of oil to us for some reason. So I'm in no position to judge him. But Socialism can work in very small doses. Too bad it looks like he's going all out at once. Oh well, maybe next time.
Posted by: Jon on May 18, 2007 06:38 PMSocialism only works when practiced by a voluntary group who have the power to eject slackers. An example were the early Christians to whom Paul wrote, If they won't work, don't feed them. Simple social application that works. If we took all the deadbeats and stuck them in a room and told them they would remain there with out any food, only water, until they got a job and supported themselves, I seriously doubt any of them would starve to death. Of course, if they all starved to death, it would not be a great loss.
Posted by: Jeremy on May 18, 2007 08:28 PMWell I'm talking about the kind of socialism where the gov't runs everything. That, as long as the agency isn't corrupt, can work pretty well. But again, it's Venezuala, so it probably will be corrupt.
Posted by: Jon on May 18, 2007 09:58 PMJon - Other than Sweden give me one example where gummint run socialism has worked. It has been a colossal failure everywhere it has been tried.
Posted by: Denny on May 18, 2007 10:02 PMDanS:"You can go into the inner-city of any of our top-30 Metropolis and see what you might think are our 'fat' kids; -they are not fat & diabetic because of their rich-diet."
Great debate going on here, but I had to interject this...you think maybe the problem could be (drum roll....) poor parenting?
Doesn't cut it with me. The children get free or reduced meals at school, and I know of some communities that provide this during the summer as well.
Maybe Mom (and/or Dad) would rather buy flashy designer label clothes than buy fruits and veggies? Or cook a decent meal for the kids?
Reminds me of this hospital ward clerk that I worked with years ago. She's sitting there, acting all proud of her 4 year old daughter. Then says the little girl asked her "Mommy will you fix me something to eat? (breakfast)" This woman actually bragged that she told her child "No, you can just eat when you get to school" and rolled back into bed.
Yeah, some cases of "malnourished", obese, early onset type 2 diabetes due to a steady diet of Happy Meals, chips, coke, and other empty calories in children may actually be due to old fashioned "parental neglect" and not because of not enough spending on social welfare programs.
Imagine that.
Posted by: Lady Heather on May 18, 2007 10:42 PMDanS-
You pay $80 for a carton of smokes? Holy crap! I pay half that. Maybe Dubya has his hands in the tobacco industry too? They're a group of tobacco growers who funded this tobacco war to force people who can't afford to smoke, to smoke. They are the same ones bringing the wetbacks north. They are called whores!
"Just think if those people who buy cigarettes would quit and invest that money in mutual funds. Let's say they spend $20 a week on smokes (probably more)."
Denny-
Congratulations for bitchslapping nicotine! That's a tough one!
I spend about $50 a week in smokes alone. Am I a dumbass for slowly killing myself with tar and nicotine? Yes. Can I afford to do that? Yes. Do I have health coverage from putting into Society? Yes. Do I burden Society? No, I put into it. Will I pull my own weight plus some? You're gotdamn right I will!
DanS-
Will I choose my vices over my family? Not on your life!
Once again, it's apples and oranges, my friend.
Living within one's means is the key to success, I'm just tired of being the key that unlocks the apathetic and lazy doors...
Posted by: CharlieDelta on May 18, 2007 11:53 PMCD - Will you pay a whopping big tax on the stupid? Yes. What I was really bashing were people who bitch about the high price of cigarettes. If they don't like paying all that money, there is an easy solution: quit. I have expensive habits as well. I drink alcohol which is heavily taxed. Do I bitch about alcohol taxes? No. Do I bitch about the high price of gas? No. mainly because it has not hit an all time high yet and I understand the market forces that are driving the price.
Posted by: Denny on May 19, 2007 11:20 AM{side note - that wasn't me advocating Socialism}
LadyHeather
Tell me about it... I remember in school kids wearing designer jeans, Members Only jackets, and getting free lunches while I brought my brown bag and wore my wranglers two days in a row.
I've been a cynic about public assistance ever since.
Posted by: Jon - now joncz on May 19, 2007 11:31 AMDanny-
America. The TVA (Great Depression agency) was a government run power plant. Pure socialism, and it worked. The agency was of course controversial, but it did exactly as was planned and was on budget.
Posted by: Jon on May 19, 2007 05:50 PMDenny-
I was being sincere about kickin' the habit. I've been slowly killing myself since my sophmore year in highschool, and it's a bitch to quit! There was no sarcasm implied or intended in my Dringlish.
Will I pay a whopping big tax on the stupid? As far as I know, I already do. It's called welfare.
Posted by: CharlieDelta on May 19, 2007 08:09 PMCD - Lots of welfare people smoke. We get taxes from them. I really love the Hope scholarship in Georgia. It's fully funded by the Georgia lottery. Poor people buy lottery tickets and put middle class kids through college.
If you're serious about quitting, next time you try eat lots of citrus fruit or drink a lot of orange juice. Vitamin C attaches to nicotine and helps flush it from your body. I was a pack and a half to three pack a day smoker. Pall Mall. Quit as a New Year's resolution.
Posted by: Denny on May 19, 2007 10:49 PMYou don't even have to go cold turkey, CD.
I weaned myself off more than 10 years ago, and was surprised how easy it was.
I couldn't cut the cold turkey method, got too sick. Though that's what worked for my husband. To each his own, I guess.
Loved how much money I kept from the politicians and lawyers in the process as well.
Posted by: Lady Heather on May 19, 2007 11:16 PMCharlieDelta........
This is the message........You want to quit smoking? Do it now! Maybe I was just lucky when I quit but in my younger days,then two packs of Pall Mall`s a day was the routine. I started smoking at 14 or so as it was the cool thing to do. The last cigarette which I enjoyed was the last one I smoked on the sneak before my dad said I could smoke.
Well after that it was a habit much like scratching your butt. When I was 25 & working in the Toolroom at GE, the vending company rounded off the price of Cigs to $.30 a pack instead of giving you $.02 back in pennies inside the cellophane wrapper "How many remember that", every other smoker was quitting in protest & I was hounded into quitting so as to make it unanimous. The upshot is even though I really did not want to quit,I went cold turkey rather then lose face with my buddies......I was the only one who made it, the rest went back to smoking, some later died , some quit later on & some still puff & wheeze away.
It has been 40+ years since that event but it was probably the best choice I ever made other then my second wife. I have to be honest, it was about 6 years before I lost the habit of reaching for a pack of smokes in my shirt pocket but if you value your lungs & health...... it is the only choice to make.
I did fall off the non-smoke wagon just one time about 6 years after quitting.....At a stag party for a friend whose girlfriend was in the family way, I was offered a smoke while packing about half a snootful of Moosehead Ale, one deep drag inhaled was enough to bring me to my knees coughing, retching & dizzy. This was the ultimate cure & somehow co-incided with losing the urge to reach for a pack of smokes.
Today I cannot tolerate the smell of cigarette smoke, I cannot go to smoke-filled bars,I lost some of my friends but I have money for the toys all guys need to enjoy life.It is also true everything you eat & drink will taste so much better especially the imported beer. It is really amazing how much spending money you will have when you do quit plus you will not smell like you just crawled out of a burning outside shithouse.
Lots of luck, I trust you have the strength & willpower to succeed.
Dudley1.......Uncle Bill
Charlie: My friend Karen started smoking in high school. She tried a couple of times to quit. This last time, I think she finally did it. She found some sort of online program that helped. I'll get her over here to tell you what she did.
I heard somewhere it takes on average eight tries to kick the habit. So I guess the message is just keep trying!
Posted by: PeggyU on May 20, 2007 01:40 PMMy brother quit a few months ago. It's been hard for him, but he's clearly got the willpower to stick with it this time. He says its hard, and the urges for him are always just as strong, just less and less frequent.
Best of luck in quitting the habbit. A good number of my friends smoke, and they're going to have a hard time with that throughout their life. Hope you're able to stick with it!
Posted by: Jon on May 20, 2007 02:29 PMDenny-
First of all, sorry for sidetracking the thread…
The next time I attempt to quit, I will try the citrus technique. I have never heard of that before, but I will try almost anything. I tried the patch a few years back and made it 9 days by chewing on straws, pens, toothpicks. I broke down and bought a pack after a night of heavy drinking. Even after as short as nine days, that first one kicked my ass and tasted like shit, but I was back in the same silly routine after that. It’s funny how a beer and a smoke go hand in hand.
Uncle Bill-
Thanks for the encouragement! I don’t like the smoke-filled bars either. There’s nothing worse than trying to enjoy a meal with second-hand smoke in your face. And this is coming from a smoker. I can remember the shitty smell on my clothes when I was a kid after an afternoon at the bowling alley with my folks. It was horrible! I still don’t know why I ever started. Maybe it was to be “cool” too.
PeggyU-
Thanks. Suggestions are always welcome. I don’t know many people who have actually managed to kick the filthy habit, so any input from someone with experience is always a good thing. Eight times huh? I go through spurts, so I guess I have about three more tries left before it’s a lost cause. ;-)
Jon-
Thanks.