From Patrick. And let's not forget that we have reached a "consensus" on AGW and that the US has the worst health care in the world. I wonder why we get so many Canadians coming here for tests and operations? Yannow, like the lady who came here to have her quadruplets. Why didn't she go to Cuba? According to Mr Creosote, Cuba has better health care than the US. Or why didn't she just stay in Canada? Oh yeah. There was a shortage of neonatal beds in Canada. Funny how shortages occur under socialism.
Posted by denny at August 30, 2007 11:08 PMHe looks hungry for an M203...
Eat it michael, eat it!
Posted by: CharlieDelta on August 31, 2007 01:48 AMHad a great argument with a lib client of mine, and WON as usual. She tried to tell me our country's health care system was so bad, we are no longer at the top of the "longevity" list compared to some other countries. I had to quickly remind her that it was because of all the unhealthy third world illegal immigrants that come here (one of the reasons being the health care system) that cause our statistics to drop. She didn't know what to say to that, and like a typical lib, had that "deer in headlights look". Priceless.
Denny, about your question : I wonder why we get so many Canadians coming here for tests and operations?
I don't know your health care system, but I presume the main reproach is the cost for the patient, and not the technical capacity of your doctors.
Nobody denies that your country must be wonderfull for rich people.
Posted by: Prosper on August 31, 2007 07:44 AMProsper, you should see the new studies that are out on our 'poor' ppl. Apparently 75% of us have a car and own our homes and 90% pay for cable tv/internet-OMG poor folks in this country even have the internet-which means that we can continue to bash your smelly attitude. Imagine that, for fun on a Friday night, we can order in a movie, clean our guns and Not go out and burn a car. We can also get a boil lanced off our ugly American asses faster than in any of your fave socialist utopias. Imagine that Prosper, you would die from a zit on your ass while waiting in line for health care.
That's why the world is jealous of us, it has nothing to do with Herr Bush or Iraq.
Problem Solved: Please Drive Safely
LisaKaye......
Don`t you remember as a child pressing your nose against the store window looking at the toys on display wishing you had them? This is what Prosper & the rest of the America haters are doing...they are just jealous, it is the liberal thing to do ...lash out against the very thing you crave particulary when someone you owe your very existance to has it & you do not.
Posted by: dudley1 on August 31, 2007 09:05 AMLisaKay - you Rock! Prosper, pull your head out of your ass - why can't you learn to engage your brain before opening your mouth? If you really, really want to know what 'rich' is, take a trip to any 3rd world country and help them rebuild, or provide food, medicine and clothing as part of either a relief or reachout effort. Then you'll get a better definition of 'rich.' Citizens of Canada & the U.S. are 'rich,' and most don't have a clue, especially if your baseline is starting with nothing, nada, zip, like much of the world. Wealthy is a whole other ballgame. In case you've never been in an emergency room in any hospital in the U.S., they are required to treat patients in spite of their ability, or lack thereof, to pay. And every city has free or low-cost clinics. Like Denny queried, how many Canadians would rather come to this country and get help, rather than wait in line in Ottawa and face the alternative? Get a frickin' grip!
Posted by: Chappy on August 31, 2007 09:14 AMProsper: This is for you. Maybe it will help you understand.
A guy dies and finds himself in front of Satan. Satan says, “You have two options” as he points to two arched doorways. The guy looks and sees that a sign over one arch says Capitalist Hell. A sign over the other arch says Socialist Hell. He further notices that there is a long line trying to get into Socialist Hell and no one trying to get into Capitalist hell.
He turns to the Devil and asks, “What’s behind the door of Socialist Hell?” The Devil says, “They whip you, stretch you on the rack and boil you in oil.”
The guy thinks that’s pretty severe and can’t imagine the horror behind the other door as he asks about it.
The Devil says, “They whip you, stretch you on the rack and boil you in oil.”
The guy says, “Then why is there a long line in front of Socialist Hell and no line trying to get into Capitalist Hell?”
“Shortages,” the Devil replies, “In Socialist Hell they keep running out of whips, racks and boiling oil.”
Art, you ROCK! I love the Socialist - Capitalist lesson! Micheal Moore had beter thank God every day that he is a US citizen! Looking at the size of him, I imagine he's going to need our health care system in the very near future. Let's hope he's on vacation in Cuba when it happens!
Posted by: Mark on August 31, 2007 10:14 AMI Rock? WOOOOT!
Posted by: LisaKay on August 31, 2007 10:14 AMLisaKay - Rock AND Roll!!!
Posted by: Chappy on August 31, 2007 11:17 AMThis goes to show that the Canadian health care system does not work but it is the system the dimocrats want. Get prepared to send us south of the border (Mexico) just like Canada, sends their patients to the south.
Posted by: Tanzfleck on August 31, 2007 11:19 AMI don't know your country Lisakay. I just remember seeing Katrina's disaster and people needing buses to escape. And apparently, living in an old trailer is called being a landlord.
But the point here is your healthcare insurance system. And I read here that the number of Americans without health insurance had risen by 2.2 million, to 47 million.
That's why I said your problem was the medical cost for the patient, and not the technical capacity of your doctors. Neither more, neither less.
Your digession about Internet and TV seems typical to me. What's your priority? Healthcare or TV for everybody?
Posted by: Prosper on August 31, 2007 11:20 AMProsper, I can break my arm and go to the emergency room here and be treated and done in about 3 hours. It might cost me 500-600 dollars. But you know what? I get my arm fixed and it only takes about three hours. Then, since I don't have insurance, I can pay the bill out in monthly installments. See how that works? I take care of myself, I don't rely on anyone else to do it for me and I am no where near a SRF.
Posted by: kerrcarto on August 31, 2007 11:27 AMI don't understand how that works. How do the hospital know you will be able to pay off your debt? Or do you mean you must go to your bank first, with your broken arm? And what if you cannot pay? You keep your arm broken ?
Posted by: Prosper on August 31, 2007 12:05 PMProsper - True. You do not understand our system. No one can be turned away from an emergency room due to inability to pay. Our "poor" are covered by Medicaid. Our old people are covered by Medicare. The 47 million figure that keeps floating around contains people who are between jobs and do not have health insurance and young healthy people who don't think they need it. Canadians have to come here because due to socialized health care, they have shortages.
Posted by: Denny on August 31, 2007 12:18 PMProsper:
It's been a while since we could unreservedly agree.
I don't know your country Lisakay.
No, you really don't.
Sure, I snark on France - mainly due to the incredibly undeserved superiority complex the French - demonstrated by you - have.
But my snark and attack is more intended to help you by pointing out that 1) you might want to look in the backyard, and 2) Usually you're advising us to do something that's a piss-poor idea in France.
I just remember seeing Katrina's disaster and people needing buses to escape.
Then you really didn't get the memo.
The problem was with Katrina was that the buses to evacuate the people without transport weren't used. Thus turning a minor levee breach into a catastrophy.
Also note the political affiliation of those "leaders" who failed to implement the diaster plan, paniced, and blamed everybody but themselves.
Katrina barely touched New Orleans. (Friends of ours reported winds never exceeded 80 MPH in their part of the city - a very mild hurricane)
It mudder-fuckin' leveled most of the Mississippi coastline.
Remember all that disaster, and those ... emergencies? Oh, right. There weren't any, despite being clobbered by Katrina.
New Orleans flooded hours after Katrina. Breach in a levee. Trying to explain to you (hey, wait, it's a French Parish system!) would take too long. But suffice it to say, billions of dollars have vanished into New Orleans for levee work - and this is the result.
Go read this: The Stories of Katrina, via Instapundit before you tell me too much about "failure". The single biggest shame in this is in the mad dash for the Mass Media (a wholly-owned subsidiary of the Democrat Party) to blame Bush for everything (Kyoto, the war, FEMA...), that the heroism, service and duty of the people who responded have been slandered and ignored.
But the point here is your healthcare insurance system.
Which you really don't understand. Especially if you're letting the media (and particuarly the Euro media) give you "facts".
And I read here that the number of Americans without health insurance had risen by 2.2 million, to 47 million.
A mostly-bogus statistic, oft-argued.
That includes lots of young people "working", but living at home, and often covered under parental insurance. Or, most notably who aren't buying insurance because they don't think they need it.
That's not "not being able to buy insurance", it's "Sure it's not my problem" problem.
As bad as that is (where "employers" tend to pick up the bulk of insurance premiums, leaving the covered insurance to be a "3rd party" to their own healthcare), it pales to what happens when you put a unfirable government bureaucracy in charge.
To harp on the point Denny made: Also, the "uninsured" aren't "without health care". I've been uninsured more than once in my life - and I still got health care. When I've been between jobs, I chose not to get insurance, because of the cost - I could afford to handle anything that would likely come up "out of pocket". Even a couple "serious" illnesses set me back less than 1/2 of what my insurance premiums would have cost.
Posted by: Unix-Jedi on August 31, 2007 01:56 PMProsper, Prosper......
Since as you say, you do not know our country or systems , perhaps it would be to your advantage to ask & learn about them before condemning that which you do not understand.
As an example ,you said you watched the Katrina disaster & watched people needing busses to escape.....First adequate plans were in place for evacuation but the liberal democratic leaders did not implement them or heed the warnings of the Federal government or the National Hurricane center. The busses left to be flooded were part of the evacuation fleet of transportation, but th e Mayor did not activate their usage & did not take advantage of any of the other transportation provided.
As to the trailers, living in one does not make you a landlord, also living in one for free does not make you a renter while waiting for someone else to come & take care of your problem for you.
The mayor also would not allow the
Red Cross to use the emergency supplies stored in trailers outside the Superdome for the refugees inside as he was encouraging them to leave town rather then to stay there.
The sad thing is the dumb shit democratic faithful re-elected these bastards to office virtually assuring if another hurricane comes along the same thing will happen.
This is essentially what really took place but the LSM never let`s the truth affect or influence a great story.
Posted by: dudley1 on August 31, 2007 01:57 PMAre we forgetting about the poor illegals here that is part of that 47 million uninsured. That alone counts for about 20 million of the 47 million. But at least they're not burning cars. Yet!
Posted by: gene Hall on August 31, 2007 02:16 PMthe world is jealous of us - Lisakay
This is what Prosper & the rest of the America haters are doing...they are just jealous - Dudley
USA! USA! USA! - Denny
...mainly due to the incredibly undeserved superiority complex the French
;-)
Prosper:
Right. Our superiority complex is quite deserved.
Unless you don't like your GPS navigation, Nazi-free highways, televisions, Russian-free-highways, modern agriculture, antibiotics, pain pills......
And lots of other things the US invented/made practical/innovated/got working/took the bulk of the effort.
Oh, and then there are those Nuclear Aircraft Carriers...We keep building them, and they keep working!
How's the DeGaulle doing these days?
Posted by: Unix-Jedi on August 31, 2007 04:06 PMRegardless of how well or how bad our health care system is in comparision to others. Our health insurance is OUT OF CONTROL. Rates are climbing 15 to 20 percent each year..Thats the real issue here in this capitalist society.
Posted by: Bill on August 31, 2007 05:45 PMBill is right, insurance premiums continue to skyrocket, but its not because of rising medical costs. It the Damn insurance. Doctors have to pay for malpractice insurance, and that costs is rising fast as well. The insurance companies are perpetuating this fiasco, wit hte help of liars like John Edweirds.
Posted by: Jeremy on August 31, 2007 06:29 PMBill:
Our health insurance is OUT OF CONTROL.
How so?
Rates are climbing 15 to 20 percent each year..Thats the real issue here in this capitalist society.
Why are rates shooting up?
Because people are demanding more and more services, and how dare you say no?
New drugs? Better get it! How dare you not!
Treatments state-of-the art 20 years ago are now trivially cheap. I can go get a CAT scan of calcium deposits (blockages) in arteries. $119.
That's because of our "capitalist society".
The problem is that Health Insurance for almost everyone is not capitalist. Your employer is the "Customer". (Or the government, more and more)
Compare this to your car insurance or homeowners. You shop for it, you decide your coverage, and based on your risks and choices, you are insured. Health Insurance? You can't charge more for women! Sexist! Illegal! (Never mind women's health care costs more.)
Charge more for risky behavior? Illegal! Not their business!
So your rates go up, as the people you're subsidizing use more services! (Also note the jump in illegal immigrants using the ER for medical care, and skipping out on the bill - guess who's picking that up?)
Bill, you can get a very affordable "disaster-only" insurance plan (except in NY, where that's illegal). Is that cheaper than your current premiums?
Posted by: Unix-Jedi on August 31, 2007 06:35 PMillegal immigrants using the ER for medical care
Thats a completely different issue..can easily be solved by having more target practice at the borders.
However, this is one of the things some have said are great about the American Healthcare system..Any one can go to the ER and recieve treatment regardless of ability to pay.
As far as my premiums I am very lucky that I work for an employer that pays 100% of my family's medical insurance. My point was that medical insurance is becoming unaffordable and this needs to change. And disaster-only may work for some but Im not sure I would want that for my kids. And why is it illegal in NY?
Posted by: Bill on August 31, 2007 06:59 PMBill:
Thats a completely different issue.
But it isn't. You said Rates are climbing 15 to 20 percent each year..Thats the real issue.
If that's the "issue", a large fraction of that is the "cheap" labor that's here illegally.
Preventative medicine due to lawsuits, insurance increases (which in some areas are in that same range)... But that has nothing really to do with "capitialism", which was your focus of he villany.
I am very lucky that I work for an employer that pays 100% of my family's medical insurance.
While nice, that means your employer benefits from cost savings - not you. (Financially).
How well would a resturant work if for almost every meal, someone else ordered for you and your family.
My point was that medical insurance is becoming unaffordable and this needs to change.
It's not true, for one, and in almost every case I"m aware of, people with your concentations and inflection, people (like you appear to be) missing the reasons for the increases, and insisting on cures that will make the problem worse
And disaster-only may work for some but Im not sure I would want that for my kids.
Your choice - it's affordable, and a good idea for someone - protects you against the earth-shattering, life-threatening huge bills, wile expecting you to pay for the minor stuff.
And why is it illegal in NY?
Couldn't begin to tell you. But probably because it was very popular, and in an attempt to prevent young kids from buying it. (Thus, forcing them into the system to subsidize the others). But that's just a guess. Ask someone in NY's Assembly.
Posted by: Unix-Jedi on August 31, 2007 07:52 PMU-J,
When I quit working, the rate for insurance on me was arround $600 a month if I wanted to stay with their health plan. The best I could find on the open market for non disaster coverage (which is what I have) was arround $300 a month. I've been on my own for 3 1/2 years.The sum total TODATE for my out of pocket medical is $80.00 (actually a little less). One visit, strep throat, one prescription. I'm the guy these insurance companies need on the books, but I'll be darn if I'm going to pay $3600 a year for nothing. So they lost out on some dollars. If they would keep their rates reasonable, it would help.
Liars get people into these big law suits for malpractice. Often times its the patients fault for their poor recovery, buut they sue. The liar for the malpractice insurance company convinces the doctor to just settle, and they pay. The insurance company raises their rates accordingly, and some worthless lair and some quack patient get rich and WE get stuck with higher bills.
Stuff it in Fatso,eat,eat,eat. Ulgy is better
looking the you. Eat,eat,eat.