Senator Craig will be the butt of a lot of jokes [like that one] as long as he stays in the Senate.
I liked the way he voted on the issues that are important to me. But as long as he stays, he'll be a point of attack on the Republican candidates nation-wide and will probably not retain the seat in the Senate, giving more control to the Democrats.

He makes law for a living and yet claimed he did not know what he was signing, when he plead guilty.

I thought when Republicans get into scandals they always resign. What gives? Oh and when is Ted Stevens going to resign? Maybe Republicans don't always resign after all...

Sally - I agree that Senator Craig should resign. Most Republicans agree as well. How many Dimocrats think William Jefferson should resign? That's just one example. I could give many more examples. Craig is the exception rather than the rule. He is an asshole.

Sally, you are absolutely correct (holy shit, did I just type that), Craig should have resigned and we should have heard no more from or about him. That's the "responsible" choice that most Repubs tend to do. Exit question "Is Marion Berry a Dim or Repub?"

How many Dimocrats think William Jefferson should resign?

I'm sure most do. I don't know of any polls on the subject.

Craig is the exception rather than the rule.

Ted Stevens? Yet another exception to the rule? Delay hung in there until well after he was indicted. It's not like Republicans always resign at the first hint of scandal. They hang on as long as they can, just like Democrats. Hell, Delay still claims he did nothing wrong, lmao.

Sally - So in your opinion if someone is indicted he/she should resign? I'm glad you brought up DeLay. How many grand juries did Ronnie Earle have to shop his bullshit to? Has DeLay even gone to trial yet? Even so, he resigned. I missed Ted Stevens. What did he do? Has he been indicted for anything?

Which President was it that lied UNDER OATH about his jizzing on some young girls dress while I was paying him to run a country? I seem to have forgotten the name.

Sally - So in your opinion if someone is indicted he/she should resign? I'm glad you brought up DeLay.

I'm glad I did too. With the raft of evidence against him of criminal and ethical wrongdoing, he should have resigned long before he did. He should be in jail right now.

I missed Ted Stevens. What did he do? Has he been indicted for anything?

Not indicted yet. Do you really not know what he did? Do you really close your eyes to all Republican wrongdoing? How long will we have to wait before he resigns? Will he resign? I thought all Republicans in scandals resigned. Or is it all Republicans convicted resign? Or is it all Republicans who you think actually definitely did something wrong resign? Where are the goalposts, Denny. You guys keep moving them.

Sally - You still didn't tell me what Ted Stevens did. When Republicans kill someone, they resign. Ted's still in office and gets reelected over and over again. And yes, I believe the Republican asshole whe ran into the motorcyclist deserved to go to jail. Do you feel the same way about Ted? As for DeLay, they were trumped up charges by a Dimocrat hack, the Texas version of Mike Nifong. I'll be he walks on every single charge.

Sally - You still didn't tell me what Ted Stevens did.

I would suggest you read the newspaper now and then. Hell, even Fox News felt compelled to mention this. This is a brief rundown of Stevens improperactions from Wikipedia. If you have a problem with that source, all of their citations are noted below:

In December 2003, the Los Angeles Times reported that the Stevens had taken advantage of lax Senate rules to use his political influence to earn a large amount of his personal wealth. According to the article, while Stevens was already a millionaire "thanks to investments with businessmen who received government contracts or other benefits with his help," the law maker who is in charge of $800 billion a year, writes "preferences he wrote into law" that he benefits from.

On May 29, 2007, the Anchorage Daily News reported that the FBI and a federal grand jury were investigating an "extensive" remodeling project at Stevens' home in Girdwood. The remodeling work, which more than doubled the size of the modest home (public records show that the home is now 2,471 square feet (230 m²) and valued at about $441,000-which means that it was less than 1,200 square feet (110 m²) before the remodel, occurred in the summer and fall of 2000, was organized by VECO Corporation, an oil-field service company that has long been a strong lobbying presence in Juneau. Earlier in May, two top Veco executives pleaded guilty to federal conspiracy, bribery and tax charges. In June, the Anchorage Daily News reported that a federal grand jury in Washington, D.C., heard evidence in May about the expansion of Stevens' Girdwood home and other matters connecting Stevens to Veco. In mid-June, FBI agents questioned several aides who work for Stevens as part of the investigation. In July, Washingtonian magazine reported that Stevens had hired "Washington’s most powerful and expensive lawyer", Brendan Sullivan Jr., in response to the investigation. Stevens' Alaska home was raided by the FBI and IRS on July 30, 2007.

The Justice Department is also examining whether federal funds that Stevens steered to an Alaska wildlife research center may have enriched a former aide. Currently the United States Department of Commerce and the Interior Department's inspector general are investigating "how millions of dollars that Stevens, R-Alaska, obtained for the nonprofit Alaska SeaLife Center were spent." According to CNN, "Among the questions is how about $700,000 of nearly $4 million directed to the National Park Service wound up being paid to companies associated with Trevor McCabe, a former legislative director for Stevens."

In 2007 Stevens added $3.5 million into a Senate spending bill this year to help finance an airport to serve a remote Alaskan island. The airstrip would connect the roughly 100 permanent residents of Akutan, but the biggest beneficiary is the Seattle-based Trident Seafoods Corp. that operates "one of the world’s largest seafood processing plants on the volcanic island in the Aleutians." In December 2006 a federal grand jury investigating political corruption in Alaska ordered Trident and other seafood companies to produce documents about ties to the senator’s son, former Alaska Fisheries Marketing Board Chairman Ben Stevens. Trident’s Bundrant is a longtime supporter of Sen. Stevens, and Bundrant with his family contributed $17,300 since 1995 to Ted Stevens’ political campaigns and $10,800 to his leadership PAC while Bundrant also gave $55,000 to the National Republican Senatorial Campaign Committee.

The junior Senator from Alaska, Lisa Murkowski, bought a home below real estate value from two developers tied to the Stevens probe. After media scrunity Murkowski promised to sell the property at her cost to purchase it.

In September, The Hill reported that Stevens had "steered millions of federal dollars to a sportfishing industry group founded by Bob Penney, a longtime friend". In 1998, Stevens invested $15,000 in Utah land deal managed by Stevens; in 2004, Stevens sold his share of the property for $150,000.

The junior Senator from Alaska, Lisa Murkowski, bought a home below real estate value from two developers tied to the Stevens probe. After media scrunity Murkowski promised to sell the property at her cost to purchase it.

In September, The Hill reported that Stevens had "steered millions of federal dollars to a sportfishing industry group founded by Bob Penney, a longtime friend". In 1998, Stevens invested $15,000 in Utah land deal managed by Stevens; in 2004, Stevens sold his share of the property for $150,000.

^ a b "Senator's Way to Wealth Was Paved With Favors", Los Angeles Times, Dec 17, 2003. Retrieved on 2007-08-21.
^ Richard Mauer. "Feds eye Stevens' home remodeling project", Anchorage Daily News, May 29, 2007. Retrieved on 2007-08-21.
^ Richard Mauer. "Grand jury examines Stevens' ties to Veco", Anchorage Daily News, June 17, 2007. Retrieved on 2007-08-21.
^ Matt Apuzzo. "Sen. Stevens aides questioned in probe", Associated Press, June 19, 2007. Retrieved on 2007-08-21.
^ Kim Eisler, "Sen. Ted Stevens Hires Super-Lawyer Brendan Sullivan", Washingtonian Magazine, July 1, 2007
^ "FBI photographs wine in raid of senator’s home", MSNBC, July 31, 2007. Retrieved on 2007-08-21.
^ a b c "Probe eyes money Stevens steered to research center", CNN, August 1, 2007. Retrieved on 2007-08-21.
^ a b c d "Stevens’ Earmark Funds Airport Project That Benefits One Company", CQ Politics, August 1, 2007. Retrieved on 2007-08-21.
^ a b "Stevens' aide said to testify in probe", Baltimore Sun, August 1, 2007. Retrieved on 2007-08-21.
^ Manu Raju, "Catching fish, netting earmarks up in Alaska", The Hill, September 6, 2007

Do you feel the same way about Ted?

An accidental death about which we do not know all the facts. I know you hate him beyond all reason because he is liberal, so that completely prevents you from looking at him objectively. The complete hate you spew for all liberals kind of makes it hard to take your opinion seriously about any of them.

As for DeLay, they were trumped up charges by a Dimocrat hack

Democrats are bad! Republicans are good! Tom Delay is a great guy, so of course if he's indicted, he did absolutely nothing wrong. Yeah, I get it, Denny. I've read your playbook before. The problem is that laundering funds to circumvent campaign finance laws is against the law. Sorry, thems the facts. :)

I do think that power has corrupted quite a few on both sides of the aisle. I never really cared much for Delay, he was an exterminator who more then looks like a rat himself. That said I think all Ronnie Earle has is a bowl of warm air and nothing else.

Duke Cunningham, Dan Rostenkowski, william Jefferson........all should be tried for treason in televised trial. that might straighten the others out.

Sally - I read the Atlanta Urinal and Constipation (a very liberal newspaper) every day. This wasn't covered. BTW, I very seldom watch Fox News. Under the same guidelines, do you think Diane Feinstein should resign for steering gummint defense contracts to her husband while she was on the Senate Defense Committee?

I believe all scumbags should resign regardless of party. The only thing is it is almost always the Republicans who resign, never the Dimocrats. Case in point. Mark Foley, sent dirty notes to pages. Resigned. Gerry Studds boinked a page. Served three more terms. I've brought up before how Clinton's crimes exceeded Nixon's. Nixon resigned. Clinton didn't. Of course, three honorable Republican senators asked him to do it for the good of the country. Unfortunately, there weren't three honorable Dimocrat senators to do the same.

Ted? An accident? He was drunk. He left the scene of an accident. He tried to get another family member to take the blame. Imagine if either you or I had done that. We would have served jail time. Ted went free and now he is a "respected leader" of the Dimocrat Party. Yeah. I hate Ted. He's a scumbag of the highest order. He's one of the reasons I'm sorry there is no God because if there were, there would be a place in hell reserved for him.

Under the same guidelines, do you think Diane Feinstein should resign for steering gummint defense contracts to her husband while she was on the Senate Defense Committee?

If it were proven that she did so. There is much more evidence against Stevens than Feinstein.

The only thing is it is almost always the Republicans who resign, never the Dimocrats. Case in point. Mark Foley, sent dirty notes to pages. Resigned. Gerry Studds boinked a page. Served three more terms. I've brought up before how Clinton's crimes exceeded Nixon's. Nixon resigned. Clinton didn't. Of course, three honorable Republican senators asked him to do it for the good of the country. Unfortunately, there weren't three honorable Dimocrat senators to do the same.

More conservative talking points. Sometimes Republicans resign. Sometimes Democrats resign. Sometime Republicans don't. Sometimes Democrats don't. A couple pieces of anectdotal evidence don't prove that "Republicans almost always resign and Democrats never do."

The Clinton/Nixon comparison is a joke. Nixon's actions and coverup were much worse than Clinton's insignicant lie in a civil deposition. The rest of the Clinton "scandals" like Whitewater, travelgate, FBI files, etc. were bullshit and amounted to nothing (according to the Starr Report). Nixon was a criminal and I sure wish he would have stayed in office long enough to be impeached and the removed from office.

Ted? An accident? He was drunk.

Yes, an accident. Was it proven that he was drunk? (It may well have been; I'm sure you're more familiar with all of the details of this than I am considering how obsessed with it you are). Did a breathalizer or BAT prove that he was over the legal limit?

He left the scene of an accident

Yes, and he shouldn't have done that. But leaving the scene of an accident does not make on a murderer.

Ted went free and now he is a "respected leader" of the Dimocrat Party.

As he should be. If this were a major Republican, you would say, "yeah, he left the scene of an accident and he shouldn't have done that, but it's not like that's a federal offense. Is it even a felony?"

Imagine if either you or I had done that. We would have served jail time.

You're probably right. And if a member of the Bush family did the same thing up around Kennebunkport, they wouldn't go to jail either. Rich people don't get equal justice. Welcome to America, Denny.

No - If he had been a Republican I would have demanded that he resign.

Over and over again - 1000 FBI files. Nixon tried to get one with no success. Politilization of the IRS by having them audit his enemies. Nixon had no luck with that altho' he tried. Perjury and obstruction of justice. It doesn't matter if it were an insignificant lie, it was a lie. He committed perjury. And it was in a sexual harassment suit. If Clinton were a Republican you and the rest of the libs would have been screaming for his scalp. Y'see, I'm consistent even though you don't think so. I think scumbags should resign no matter which party. You're still defending Clinton who was probably the biggest scumbag to hold office. You're defending Kennedy, another scumbag.

I thought Cunningham should have resigned, which he did. I thought Foley should have resigned, which he did. I thought the Republican who hit the cyclist should have resigned, which he did. I also thought he should have gone to jail, which he didn't. I hold Republicans to much higher standards than you hold Dimocrats.

Over and over again - 1000 FBI files. Nixon tried to get one with no success. Politilization of the IRS by having them audit his enemies.

Ken Starr (no fan of the Clintons) investigated that and found nothing. Did you read the Starr report and it's conclusions on Whitewater, Travelgate, FBI files, etc? Or would you rather just sling shit at them and not know the truth?

Y'see, I'm consistent even though you don't think so. I think scumbags should resign no matter which party. You're still defending Clinton who was probably the biggest scumbag to hold office. You're defending Kennedy, another scumbag.

And you're defending Delay. You defend your guys, period. It doesn't matter what they did. If Delay gets convicted you'll blame a liberal prosecutor and an idiotic jury. You'll still defend that scumbag.

As far as Kennedy goes, you call him a murderer. Did he murder anyone. You say he was driving drunk, but you didn't answer my question. Did a breathalizer or BAT show him ove the legal limit? Do you care about the facts? I guess this is just like with the Clintons: you don't care about the facts; it is much more fun to just throw accusations and pretend your story is true. Facts just get in the way.

Did a breathalizer or BAT show him ove the legal limit?

Silly the defender of Ted-
Did he stick around to take either of the two? No. He didnt', so what kind of stupid question is that? You know as well as anyone else that a breathalizer or BAT didn't show that he was over the limit, because he wasn't even around to take one. He left his poor passenger to drown. What a champ, huh?

I thought you were against people who medicate themselves like me. I guess it doesn't matter to you when a fellow liberal gets hammered and drives. In fact, you liberals praise them. Nice double standard...

Silly,
Ted Kennedy swam a mile away from the woman that he let drown in his car. He went and checked into a hotel and made himself seen in order to prove his alibi. No wonder why Joan left him and went nutty. These are not talking points, these are facts dear child. He tried to run the same scam on CourtTV when his nephew raped that young lady on the beach. Where was he when his cousin Michael Skankle was convicted for killing Martha Moxely? You do the research darlin...
I call Ole Teddy Jabba The Hut, when he starts talking all I hear is ooga ha ga wagaa hagaa.

Silly, out of the two party system you can usually take this as fact: Both parties may screw you, but the Democrats will be first to fuck you in the ass. It will hurt, and you will pay more for it, luckily for you-you like it! You'll give all for pork barrel spending and social programs.
Good luck with that, and how's about those lovely Muslim Clerics promoting on their tv on how to emotionally and physically abuse their wives? Gotta love them Burka busters dun 'cha silly?

Sally - I'm simply pointing out that one of the grounds of impeachment of Nixon is that he tried to get one FBI file. So since it was OK for Clinton to have 1000, it should then have been OK for Nixon to have tried to get one. Consistency Sally. That's all I ask. Shouldn't Clinton be judged by the same standards as Nixon? Likewise, the IRS. Clinton was able to have his enemies audited. That was OK. It was not OK that Nixon tried and failed. Consistency, that's all I ask. I'm not defending Nixon, I'm just pointing out that when Nixon did something it was bad. When Clinton did the same thing it was OK. Both Nixon and Clinton were/are scumbags. Nixon, at least, had enough honor to resign. Clinton has no honor (or shame) at all.

I have never defended DeLay except to say that Ronnie Earle, a Nifong like hack, had to shop his case about DeLay to multiple grand juries before he found one that would issue indictments. Delay resigned. I'll bet he is not convicted. If pointing that out is defending DeLay, I'll plead guilty. I'm still waiting for William Jefferson to resign. BTW, when he attended a meeting of the Congressional Black Caucus, he received a standing ovation. To me that puts to rest your claim that most Dimocrats want him to resign.

The people at the party reported that Kennedy had a lot to drink. Even if he was sober, which I doubt, he did run the car off the road and left a woman to drown. He killed her Sally. Then he compounded it with leaving the scene of the accident and not reporting it until the next day. Nice of you to defend a killer.

Once again, I'm consistent. I'm for Larry Craig resigning. I was for Duke Cunningham resigning. I was for Mark Foley resigning. Gerry Studds, who didn't send dirty notes to pages but actually buggered one, served three more terms. That is not a Republican talking point, that is a fact.

I just want to see Republicans judged by the same standards as Dimocrats, but I doubt if I'll see it in the remaining years I have left on this planet.

I'm still waiting for William Jefferson to resign. BTW, when he attended a meeting of the Congressional Black Caucus, he received a standing ovation. To me that puts to rest your claim that most Dimocrats want him to resign.

That puts to rest my claim that most Democrats want him to resign? If the CBC gives him a standing ovation, then that speaks for most Democrats? How many members of the CBC are there? Does that number equal more than half of the Democrats?

The people at the party reported that Kennedy had a lot to drink.

You claimed he was drunk. You have no proof of that. Was he over the legal limit when he was behind the wheel? I don't know and neither do you. You merely assume he was because you don't like him. Stick with the facts.

Even if he was sober, which I doubt, he did run the car off the road and left a woman to drown. He killed her Sally.

He had an accident and a woman died. Does being in an accident make one a murderer? Clearly there was no intent. We don't even know enough to say that he was negligent. How does that make him a murderer? Again, we don't know the facts. You're just assuming because you hate him because he's liberal.

I just want to see Republicans judged by the same standards as Dimocrats, but I doubt if I'll see it in the remaining years I have left on this planet.

No, you presume Democrats guilty and Republicans innocent. You have proclaimed Delay's innocence for a long time. "He did nothing wrong!" is your refrain. You aren't interested in the facts. You just want to spin them. His indictment means nothing to you. You are mum on Ted Stevens, but if federal agents raided a Democratic senator's home, you would be calling for his head and saying, "Republicans always resign when this kind of thing happens!"

You have two standards, Denny. One for Republicans and one for Democrats. Where is your consistency?

Sally -

You are of course correct that none of us can PROVE that kennedy was drunk. This means that he cannot be sent to prison or better yet the stake, or what ever they have in the People's Republic Of Mass.

That said.

A senator or representative has a fiduciary responsibility to the citizenry to be held to a much higher standard then Joe Lunchpail does. In the case that their integrity is so sullied they should resign......they should. period. Craig, Jefferson, Kennedy, Rostenkowski, Delay, all of them. Republicans have a much higher on base % of getting these characters out of their position of influence. Democrats should be ashamed.

Sally - Sorry. I have only one standard and that is that scumbags should resign. I don't defend killers like you do. And once again, I never said that DeLay was innocent. I just said that Earle had to shop his case to multiple grand juries to get an indictment. If he is convicted of any offense, fine. I'm glad he resigned. But, the charges Earle has brought are very slim as evidenced by how many grand juries he had to go to to get an indictment.

At the same time, Kennedy is still in Congress and is respected by Dimocrats. You are defending him and he is a scumbag deluxe. I know you're proud of him. William Jefferson is still in Congress. So is Mollohan from West Virginia. Shall we talk about him?

I'm consistent Sally. You are the one who has different standards for Dimocrats than you do for Republicans.

A senator or representative has a fiduciary responsibility to the citizenry to be held to a much higher standard then Joe Lunchpail does. In the case that their integrity is so sullied they should resign......they should. period.

Perhaps so. But I haven't seen a praciced philosophy of "since there is the appearance of impropriety, I will resign" from either side.

Republicans have a much higher on base % of getting these characters out of their position of influence.

I've certainly heard this argument repeated on this website frequently, but I've yet to see more than anecdotal evidence to support it.

I don't defend killers like you do.

Again, you prefer throwing words around without regard to the facts. To be a "killer" one's action must be intentional, purposeful, reckless or at least negligent. You assume Kennedy was at least one of these things. It was an accident. Was he negligent in this accident? You don't know, do you?

If he [Delay] is convicted of any offense, fine.

So, is that the standard? One must be convicted? Kennedy wasn't convicted of anything. Do you even know what happened that night? How much did he have to drink? What happened in the accident? You don't know. But in your mind -- without knowing the facts -- you have already convicted him. For Delay, you want to wait and see if he is convicted. For Kennedy, no trial is necessary for you because you already "know" he's a killer. Double standard. Where is your consistency, Denny?

Let's review. He ran his car off the road (no recklessness there), swam ashore and left Mary Jo to drown, left the scene of the "accident", and didn't report it until the next day when he had had a chance to sober up. Nope. No negligence there. Why are you defending a killer? You and I would have probably been charged with manslaughter.

What's your problem with DeLay? Didn't he resign anyway? That should make you happy. Should he have? If a Dimocrat, no. If a Republican, yes.

And once again, I'm all for Larry Craig resigning. After he reneged on his promise, the Republican leadership called for his resignation. I have not heard any Dimocrats call for William Jefferson's resignation. Why is that if a majoruty of Dimocrats want him to resign like you claim?

Let's review. He ran his car off the road (no recklessness there), swam ashore and left Mary Jo to drown, left the scene of the "accident", and didn't report it until the next day when he had had a chance to sober up. Nope. No negligence there. Why are you defending a killer?

Yes, there is no proof that he was negligent in the accident. Leaving the scene of an accident is not negligence in causing her death. Just because one's car goes off the road does not mean one was driving recklessly. There can be an accident without negligence. There can be death without negligence. Do you have proof of negligence? None. Should he have left the scene of the accident? No. Does that make him a killer? Of course not.

And once again, I'm all for Larry Craig resigning. After he reneged on his promise, the Republican leadership called for his resignation. I have not heard any Dimocrats call for William Jefferson's resignation. Why is that if a majoruty of Dimocrats want him to resign like you claim?

I don't know why you hear certain things and don't hear others. Despite a raid on Sen. Ted Stevens home, you managed to not hear about it. So I'm not surprised you haven't heard about any Democrats wanting Jefferson out.

Most Democrats and Republicans have not spoken to the issue of Craig or Jefferson resigning. So neither of us really knows how many or if a majority of either party want their guy gone. Both guys are making their party look bad, and that is why I think most in both parties want their guy gone. Neither of us has numbers.

Face it Sally, despite all of your arguments, it boils down to you defending a dooshbag who was responsible for the death of a young woman and if he were a Republican you would be screaming about what a dooshbag he is just like I am. When a Republican dooshbag killed someone I called for his resignation and he did resign. They also convicted him of manslaughter, just like they should have convicted Ted. I'm not in the habit of defending killers like you are. That's the difference between you and me. On the upside, the death of Mary Jo destroyed Kennedy's presidential ambitions. I'm sure that's a consolation to Mary Jo's parents.